who is being unreasonable? new job and children

[interestingly8]

Would like to keep this unbiased if possible.

Sarah and Ben have two children together and are separated. Ben is now married to Claire (B&C also now have young children of their own).

S&Bs children stay with B&C 2 nights one week and 3 the next currently. The week with 3 nights is over the weekend and the week with 2 is during the week.

Ben works, Claire is a SAHM and Sarah has been studying for the past number of years around her part time job.

Sarah has now qualified and is beginning a new job which will involve shift work meaning the her and Ben's children's normal contact schedule will need to change and follow Sarah's shift patterns rather than set days that they now have. This will inc upping contact to 3 nights every week whilst Sarah works. Ben is saying this is not possible as he's already arranged his work around the schedule they have had for years and cannot change this dependant on Sarah's shifts for that week. He has agreed to up contact to 3 nights per week but has said these must be set days.

Sarah has suggested Claire help if Ben is not around on one of the days, Claire has said no and agrees with Ben the contact schedule should remain the same as its what everyone has worked around for years Inc the children.

Who is being unreasonable?

Sarah for saying contact needs to follow her shifts instead of being set from now on and if Ben can't do that maybe Claire could help out. YANBU

Ben and Claire for insisting contact should follow the same schedule as normal and be set, not change week by week (although they do agree to up to 3 nights per week). YABU

As a shift worker I know how hard shift work is around childcare. Ultimately I changed jobs to a Monday to Friday 9/5 loosing 32% of my income and then having to fork out nursery costs. It’s not great but i had to.

Expecting B&C to not be able to plan anything, ever because of your shifts is totally unreasonable.

I don’t think you were unreasonable to ask C, but she is not unreasonable saying know. There is a big difference in the children’s ages so they would not just all occupy each other and C wouldn’t want to be limited by school times.

For colleagues I know who work shifts and juggle childcare use a mixture of the following: Before and after school clubs, child minders, nannys, grandparents and annual leave for days they are really stuck.

If you have set days the kids are with B&C say Sun, Mon, Tues, that leaves you 3 week days for a child minder/nanny. Saturday would be more difficult maybe a grandparent but if not see if Saturday could be a non working day every week.

Make a flexiable working request for example that you work every Sunday but no Saturdays. You only work early or late shifts so you only need childcare one end of the day. You only work nights on the nights kids are with B.

It sounds difficult for both parties, the best solution would be for Sarah to work 24/30 hours a week (probably 2-3 shifts if NHS) and apply for them to be on set days (which thankfully NHS seem much more amenable to these days) and then perhaps for Claire to help out in the mean time. To be honest very much doubt Sarah’s overall net income will end up much different whether she does 24 or 37 hours a week, especially once UC, deductions, etc taken into account but will make sorting out childcare so much easier

Haven’t read all the posts yet but my ex works shifts so I have to work around him and it pisses me off big time as he only has the kids on his days off but I have to sort childcare for when I go to work. I also have 2 weekends on the run without the kids and then 6 weeks until the next kid free weekend. It’s a nightmare to plan anything and the kids don’t know if they are coming or going.

that being said I put up with it because I want the kids to have a relationship with their dad, wether it’s convenient for me or not I believe it’s the best thing for them. They go to their dads to spend time with him and I don’t see the point in them having set days and he’s in work/nights and they have to stay at GP’s. I would rather they just be with me and then see their dad on his days off. Would just be nice if he helped out a bit in the 6 weeks holidays and had them a bit more.

I think it's unreasonable to expect at least 4 other people (plus b and c children) to panda to your work schedule. Take them up on the offer of a third night, but if it doesn fit with sarahs work schedule it is down to sarah to sort other arrangements, ie a babysitter or other family.

Your children shouldn't have to have their routine disrupted every week either tbh.

Ps I don't think Claire should be expected to take some care for children that aren't hers when she has her own as well. I would say no in her shoes too

I think Sarah is being unreasonable and really should have thought about this before taking on the new job. Ben and Claire have offered a compromise of having the children for 3 nights every week; it is not Claire's responsibility to look after Sarah's children on her own when Ben is working, especially when she has young children of her own to look after too. Sarah needs to find alternative childcare on the days/nights that Ben is unavailable.

Sarah as being unreasonable. And this thread has been a doozy for unreasonable expectations of step parents from a few familiar posters 🤣

I think this type of a problem is not for AIBU vote. It is really complex issue. Some people will consider it only from the perspective of Sarah, some from perspective of children.
I can totally understand Sarah, who studied and spent number of years achieving qualifications. Possibly she even made that decision when she was with Ben, so it was almost their decision to go down that path. I also understand that there are professions where there is no flexibility and when you start you need to follow the shift pattern (one being police officer). So now Sarah may feel stuck, possibly with the student loan debt and no prospect of development. I think that requires careful consideration as oppose to mumsnet bias judgement. There is no right or wrong here.

It’s Claire I feel sorry for, no one knows how to spell her name 😂

Sarah literally said she started doing it when she had a different fiancé and he was going to support her.
It was nothing to do with Ben.

Well this is a peach of a thread.
Team Claire all the way. I'd not be tying the lives of my children to a string being pulled by my husband's ex's manager either. No chance.
OP has decided that unpredictable shifts are fine and dandy for her older children to work around but she doesn't get to make that decision for another woman's very young children.
Ben has said he will have the kids more but it's unreasonable to expect everyone else's lives to revolve around the circus OP has chosen for herself.

But then people slate women who are unable to work a job around childcare and manage in a one income household. On top of this the father and his new Mrs are treating the kids as an inconvenience separate to the family when in actual fact the kids should have the same right to be with their father and by extension their stepparent as the father and stepparents kids do

Finally a sensible rather than spiteful reply!

Does that mean seeing as she has them the majority of the time that dad is going to cough up towards childcare fees?

You need to get a firmer working pattern. Assuming you’re NHS then perhaps start with bank work so you have a bit more control over the days or approach your new employer and make the request.
I see why you may think your ex H is being frustrating (probably mixed in with other times he has been frustrating) but he has a point - the children need some stability and one job shouldn’t but 6 people (not including yourself) into a state of flux.

You choose to marry and have children with someone who already has children then your choosing to take said children on as your own unless you plan on being a wicked stepmother

I'm afraid you are U - if I were Claire I wouldn't want to have to chop and change my plans week from week to accommodate my stepkids either.

There is no "by extension the step parent", unless the parent is actually there to look after them and therefore you mean "by extension in the same house of the step parent". A step parent is not an extension of the parent, they are separate people and have separate responsibilities.

Its down to Sarah to sort but I guess it would depend on just how random her shift pattern would be. If it’s a standard pattern ie rolling or alternate weeks I can’t see why Ben and Claire can’t accommodate. It wouldn’t exactly be a last minute thing and plans could be made well in advance but if it’s truly random it would be unfair to make Claire permanently on call

Nope. This isn't something you get to dictate about other people, unless you plan on being a crazy control freak!

You choose to have children, you put them first, unless you plan on being a shit mother.
So Claire is putting her children first.

No because he won’t be flexible for his children!!

Have you missed the part where he arranged his own job around the agreed schedule?

or where he has offered to have the children more?

he isn’t disagreeing with being more flexible for the children. He is disagreeing with being flexible for his ex to a point where it has a negative impact on the other 6 people in the equation.

It really doesn’t work like that.

There is nothing wrong with needing to adjust arrangements…. Circumstances change and this could happen on either sides.

Say Sarah has been studying all this time to be a nurse and now has her first nursing job. Good for her, and then perhaps the fact that she will have to work shifts also wouldnt be be a surprise for everyone unlike if she suddenly got a shift based job without anyone having a clue this might happen. It also might mean that Sarah could be improving her earnings/the lifestyle of her children significantly, which presumably any parent would be supportive of, whether they were together or not.

there is nothing wrong with asking to change things, but there is also nothing wrong with Claire & Ben saying no. If Ben and Claire cannot change arrangements then Sarah needs to find an alternative.

Ben and Claire sound a bit smug though.

so I guess no one is being unreasonable unless everyone is kicking off about it … in which case everyone IBU