who is being unreasonable? new job and children

[interestingly8]

Would like to keep this unbiased if possible.

Sarah and Ben have two children together and are separated. Ben is now married to Claire (B&C also now have young children of their own).

S&Bs children stay with B&C 2 nights one week and 3 the next currently. The week with 3 nights is over the weekend and the week with 2 is during the week.

Ben works, Claire is a SAHM and Sarah has been studying for the past number of years around her part time job.

Sarah has now qualified and is beginning a new job which will involve shift work meaning the her and Ben's children's normal contact schedule will need to change and follow Sarah's shift patterns rather than set days that they now have. This will inc upping contact to 3 nights every week whilst Sarah works. Ben is saying this is not possible as he's already arranged his work around the schedule they have had for years and cannot change this dependant on Sarah's shifts for that week. He has agreed to up contact to 3 nights per week but has said these must be set days.

Sarah has suggested Claire help if Ben is not around on one of the days, Claire has said no and agrees with Ben the contact schedule should remain the same as its what everyone has worked around for years Inc the children.

Who is being unreasonable?

Sarah for saying contact needs to follow her shifts instead of being set from now on and if Ben can't do that maybe Claire could help out. YANBU

Ben and Claire for insisting contact should follow the same schedule as normal and be set, not change week by week (although they do agree to up to 3 nights per week). YABU

I could have been in this position
I would like to think I could have accommodated this
We use ti have them 2 night any way, so it would not have mattered which 2/3 they came.
I assume I'd get at least a weeks notice?
I could work round that.
Having a mum doing a better job who have been in my step sons best interest.
I love them, my children: their siblings love them and benefited from seeing them.
Dh was a hands on dad (who made them behaved)
I was very lucky.
So YANBU
I hope you sort it and well done in your new career.

Sarah has to arrange childcare if Ben isn’t available because of his set work days. It isn’t Claire’s responsibility.

Yes, YABU.

You had years to discuss this with them (if you wanted them both involved) and now are trying to decide his wife has to live according to your schedule.

They aren’t being unsupportive. They have said no because no set schedule. They haven’t said No increase of days, no helping out at all.

I can see why she does want a set schedule.

How is Ben a shit dad? He has said upping contact is fine but has to be set days. He has a new relationship and 4 kids in total to accommodate which he has. Sarah is asking 6 people (including children) to work around her. Seems she's the shit parent

This is not Claire's responsibility.
Neither is Sarah BU in asking Ben for flexibility.
I think people need to recognise that 9-5 Mon- Fr is no longer standard, and that many jobs come with shifts, and not all of those are in regular patterns, either. Childcare is a huge problem for shiftworkers - I know, I've accommodated one for many years.
I don't think it's manageable for lone parents unless either the Ex or other family are able to be flexible, because no formal childcare is going to be OK with looking after children on a 24/7, "we'll let you know when our shifts have been allocated" basis. I ended up having to pay for childcare to cover all the time I was at work, just in case DH was working, but quite often, he wasn't.
If Ben can be flexible, he should be . If not, then he will need to have the children more frequently, or cover the childcare costs for half the week.
The only unreasonable part here is the expectation that Claire should help out. Although it's not unreasonable to ask her, she might be OK with it - if she's looking after 2 little ones, she might find having older children around for a few hours here and there quite helpful. I know when mine were babies, I loved having older children over, it helped to entertain the little ones. But that was not on a permanent basis, just an occasional thing. But Claire should not be under pressure from anyone here, and if she does have them, she should get some benefit from it - eg Ben and Sarah both recognise her input, and Sarah could offer to have the little ones sometimes to give Sarah a break. Ben sounds like he'll have to step up whichever way you look at it.

But he is...he's happy to have then 3 days but wants set days

@C8H10N4O2 Yes. In the current scenario the schedule has been organised to suit Ben's work pattern

It says in the OP that Ben changed his working pattern when the original contact was arranged - and it also says he is prepared to change and have them an extra night, he just wants set days as cannot change his work pattern again

What new job is it?

Have you looked at family friendly policies if they have them?

I had set shifts when my son was younger. It made life an awful lot easier. My mum had my son (retired and very lucky to have her) I did 1 long day and 2 night shifts a week. My mum would have struggled if they’d not been set and she didn’t have young children.

I would be interested to know what job is so flexible that it can be re arranged frequently around a changing shift pattern. My job is pretty flexible and I can leave in the middle of the day to pick up the DC on set days but I would not be able to change it constantly. It would make any recurring afternoon meetings impossible. The idea that Ben should accommodate seems unrealistic despite how much we want to hate men. It does seem the brunt of childcare has fallen on OP in the past but that was the arrangement they made and doesn’t make this new arrangement any more workable in practice.

OP in the long run you (and the DC) will probably be happier arranging and paying for your own childcare independently. Do you really want to be faced with the tedium and irritation of having to negotiate, not only with your ex husband, but with your ex husband's wife, every single week over changing childcare arrangements? What happens if they decide they're going on holiday, or Claire says she's ill today and can't have them? What happens if she decides she's going back to work soon? You said you were naive once already by relying on a fiancé which has left you in this difficult position, so don't make the same mistake again. I think it would be quite stressful for everyone involved.

I feel for you OP; you started out in good faith that you would have a partner who could support you. Very difficult to be in a situation where no one has to support you even though you are trying to better yourself.

Having said that, I would not be ok with looking after someone’s children on ever-changing days, especially with my own. As ‘Claire’ said, it prevents her making plans of her own.

Best bet is to see if work can offer you more certainty, and/or have childcare in place for a day of the week that you may need it, whether or not you actually use it.

Agree. Its not Claire's job or her responsibility - but Ben?

The mother of his children has studied hard to provide a better life for those children. He could be a bit more supportive than a straight flat no.

Sarah should try to find a way to find more childcare, but its probably difficult to sort out before she's even started the job. Ben could certainly discuss this a bit better to find ways of helping her get started.

What has Sarah qualified in? Is it something where there will be certain roles that are set days?

My friend is in the police and she works 7am-3pm Monday-Friday but I appreciate that's very unusual for a police officer! If it's nursing, would it be possible to look at a GP practice, for instance?

I help someone with childcare, they work 3 days a week, one week is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday the following week is Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. They've struggled to get paid for childcare as it's not easy for the childminder/nursery to fill the days on the opposite week and they don't want to pay full time when they don't need it. It is worked into my hours at work, my employer is incredibly flexible but I can't imagine chopping and changing it every week.

I’m wondering what job it is which has shift work when qualified but not when training?!

I can’t imagine the stress of shift work as a single parent -the thought of navigating childcare around shift work is one reason I never went into a job requiring it. I sympathise!

However, you can argue till you’re blue in the face about who is being unreasonable, but ultimately, you can’t actually make them do this just to work around you, so practically, what other options do you have?

When does the job start?
What sort of shift pattern is it?
What are the childminder/wraparound care options like locally?
If the dad is having the children for more days, will that decrease the child maintenance amount you’ll get?

I've just seen that the OP is Sarah.

What have you qualified for @interestingly8? What is the shift pattern?

Sarah needs to arrange her childcare during her contact time. She was fine to ask but they’ve said no because Ben also has a job, Sarah’s job does not take precedent over his. It’s good they’ll pick up the extra night though.

I also think it’s best for the children to have a set schedule so they know where they are when. As a SM, I would also hate not knowing when to expect DSC as I’d feel like i couldn’t plan anything or know whether to include them in those plans.

Claire has nothing to do with this.

Why would he need to leave early? After school wraparoundcare usually runs til around 6pm. What time is dad normally finishing?

It's definitely not Claire's responsibility so she shouldn't even be considered in this at all. I do agree that your ex is shit. If it is at all possible for him to rearrange his schedule slightly to help you out then he should do it.

Failing that, Sarah you will need to plan childcare for the kids on the days you work and they're not with their dad.

YABU

When you are working, childcare is your responsilibity not your ex's and certainly not his wife's

You can ask them if anything can be changed to help, but they are not obligated to help you

YABVVU expecting your ex and his wife to fall in place around your shift pattern. Agree with your ex, the nights should be scheduled and be fixed days.

Hi OP, would you be able to request from ex a real 50/50? That would mean he has your children for 4 nights every other week?
and perhaps the 3-4 nights your Ex has the children are typical working nights for you? (And during the week)?
then you have to source occasional weekend childcare which is easier than occasional childcare during the week.

Well it depends entirely on the wrap around care doesn't it. Around here many schools don't actually have an after school club and those that do you need to book in consistent days asap at the start of the year and even then you aren't guaranteed a place. Either way it's a moot point because it's not actually Ben's responsibility to book childcare for days his children are not with him.

It's nothing to do with Claire. It would be nice if Ben could accommodate the shifts, and I think that he should, if he's able to. But if he genuinely can't then Sarah will need to find alternative childcare.

This is why Sarah is unreasonable.