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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be upset that I was not told I was breast fed by my aunt?

451 replies

Evieanne · 15/08/2023 11:31

So in my family’s religion and culture, breast feeding a baby who isn’t yours still forms kinship and re establishes part of who you cannot marry and who you’re allowed alone with from the opposite sex even within family and who can help marry you off.

In my case, as a baby I was Breast fed by my dad’s sister and I became my aunt’s milk daughter and I am the milk sibling to all of her aunt’s children - so my cousins from my aunty, through me being breast fed, became immediate family to me and are just like my biological siblings. so her male children can no longer marry me and can be alone with me and can be my guardian when I marry as they are considered my brothers.

So it is a huge thing in my family’s religion.

It took my parents a while to conceive, and they used a clinic to finally have me. There were concerns as to whether I was biologically both of my parent’s daughter, but they loved me anyway and said they didn’t want to know. My mum breast fed me a couple times just in case I wasn’t biologically hers and kept me bottle fed after that, so I know I am the mahram of her brothers and her dad. My aunt breast fed me when my parents took me to Pakistan as a baby to make sure there was no way I wasn’t blood family to my aunties and uncles on my dad’s side because my parents are related and there was no cheating, they were wanting to protect family ties. I don’t know why they just didn’t do a dna test.

But they kept this from me and I found out because my mum and my aunt had an argument about it and I was told by my mum I couldn’t be alone with any of cousins from my dad’s side unless female and I asked what about the cousins from this aunt who breast fed me, they’re my brothers ffs!!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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WestOfWestminster · 15/08/2023 14:11

Mamathebest · 15/08/2023 14:10

I am a Muslim from a different ethnic background/culture and everything you wrote is completely alien to me. I had no idea about milk brothers.

honestly I mean this in the best of ways. MN is a majority white middle class female website. Most people here will not understand or see beyond any of the cultural references in your OP. Most won’t care to and will just hammer on about their perceived superior way of living/culture. I really think get some advice from a trusted member of your local community?

This ^

madeinmanc · 15/08/2023 14:12

@GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut I get your point but the breastfeeding wouldn't be necessary because as siblings, they couldn't marry anyway. The breastfeeding is done to make mahrams when they wouldn't otherwise have been, but as siblings they would have been mahram if they shared the same mother.

Helpmepleaseimbusy · 15/08/2023 14:13

TheoTheopolis23 · 15/08/2023 13:41

I don't think she's calling the wet nursing ridiculous.

And she's right about not allowing people to be alone etc together.

It's culture. You may think it's ridiculous but that aside she is outlining what's going on for advice because she is feeling a certain way. Not to be judged or bashed.

madeinmanc · 15/08/2023 14:13

So I'm saying that if the Aunt felt it necessary to breastfeed OP to make her cousins mahram, then logically she isn't OP's biological mother.

MakeMineAdoubleChocolate · 15/08/2023 14:15

I find the whole your grandma and dad are cousins thing bizzare and confusing. And all the other ones too. So cousins and mother and son together????? I'm so confuuuussseeeed.
How the hell does that work out????

Helpmepleaseimbusy · 15/08/2023 14:16

Mamathebest · 15/08/2023 14:10

I am a Muslim from a different ethnic background/culture and everything you wrote is completely alien to me. I had no idea about milk brothers.

honestly I mean this in the best of ways. MN is a majority white middle class female website. Most people here will not understand or see beyond any of the cultural references in your OP. Most won’t care to and will just hammer on about their perceived superior way of living/culture. I really think get some advice from a trusted member of your local community?

100% this. I'm not even going to respond anymore because they will be like flies on Sh*t

JoanOfAllTrades · 15/08/2023 14:17

MakeMineAdoubleChocolate · 15/08/2023 14:01

@JoanOfAllTrades I am applauding you ! Drop that dawaah, sister like its hot!

Alhumdulillah, thank you my sister, but I didn’t mean too! ☺️

As someone however who has studied religion and theology, it makes my blood boil when people are so ignorant/uneducated! Insha’Allah perhaps if even one person reads my post and goes on to do their own research (maybe not Wikipedia) and see the righteousness, truth and become God-fearing, then Allahumma Barik Lahum.

Assalamo alaikum wa rahmatullahe wa barakatohu.

MakeMineAdoubleChocolate · 15/08/2023 14:17

Can anyone help break this down????

Yeah I see what you mean. My mum and dad are first cousins once removed. My nana and my dad are first cousins, so My nana’s mum and my granddad (dad’s dad) are brother and sister. And my mum’s dad’s mum is also the sister of my grandad and my other great grandmother. So it’s quite close if you will.

Huhhhh???!!?!?!!

MakeMineAdoubleChocolate · 15/08/2023 14:18

MashAllah, i am a revert myself x @JoanOfAllTrades fell in love as non biased person with an open mind

Nanny0gg · 15/08/2023 14:19

Mooshamoo · 15/08/2023 13:06

I think you're making it into a way bigger deal than it needs to be. And I have close Pakistani friends, so I understand Pakistani culture.

So you won't be able to marry some of your male cousin's. So what? Who cares? Your male cousin's are only 5-6 men. There are millions of men out there.

Grow up. You're being a drama queen

The OP is clearly in some distress for whatever reasons. Why the need for the last sentence?

AmazingSnakeHead · 15/08/2023 14:19

madeinmanc · 15/08/2023 14:13

So I'm saying that if the Aunt felt it necessary to breastfeed OP to make her cousins mahram, then logically she isn't OP's biological mother.

Presumably because they intended to keep it a secret that the OP's aunt was actually her mum. But this doesn't explain why they kept the breastfeeding a secret.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 15/08/2023 14:21

madeinmanc · 15/08/2023 14:13

So I'm saying that if the Aunt felt it necessary to breastfeed OP to make her cousins mahram, then logically she isn't OP's biological mother.

That's what I'm saying. If the aunt is the biological mother but that is being kept secret, the only way for the aunt to stop OP marrying a sibling that she doesn't know is a sibling is to make a subterfuge whereby they think they are milk siblings and therefore can't marry.

Nanny0gg · 15/08/2023 14:22

madeinmanc · 15/08/2023 14:12

@GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut I get your point but the breastfeeding wouldn't be necessary because as siblings, they couldn't marry anyway. The breastfeeding is done to make mahrams when they wouldn't otherwise have been, but as siblings they would have been mahram if they shared the same mother.

But if they are actual siblings it's been kept a family secret.

That's why the necessity of the 'milk siblings' (though that doesn't explain why the OP wasn't told that part)

Daisybuttercup12345 · 15/08/2023 14:22

AffableApple · 15/08/2023 11:36

I'm usually tolerant of cultural malarkey, but in your shoes I'd be more concerned about the control all these males seem to have over you tbh. If you were white, which I'm assuming you're not, people would say you're in a cult. YABU to not tell all this tomfoolery to get tae.

This.

Evieanne · 15/08/2023 14:22

MakeMineAdoubleChocolate · 15/08/2023 14:15

I find the whole your grandma and dad are cousins thing bizzare and confusing. And all the other ones too. So cousins and mother and son together????? I'm so confuuuussseeeed.
How the hell does that work out????

out of 4 siblings - 2 are female and 2 are male. One of the sisters has a son, that son is my mum’s dad and the other sister has a daughter that daughter is my mum’s mum, they marry and have my mum (they’re my mum’s parents who are first cousins because her nana’s are sisters). Then one of the brothers has a son (my dad) and my mum and dad get married.

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 15/08/2023 14:23

swimsong · 15/08/2023 14:02

That's somewhat overblown. The risk is about equal to a woman in her 40s getting pregnant - but we don't try to dissuade that from happening.

That doesn't seem to be the case when it happens in generations, not just once

Evieanne · 15/08/2023 14:23

Nanny0gg · 15/08/2023 14:22

But if they are actual siblings it's been kept a family secret.

That's why the necessity of the 'milk siblings' (though that doesn't explain why the OP wasn't told that part)

I’m wondering if my dad is not my dad which is why they did that?

OP posts:
TossacointoHenryCavill · 15/08/2023 14:24

There are NHS genetic counselors and also kind of, cultural or religious counselors attached to the NHS who might be good people to talk to about this stuff OP. This leaflet is for Bradford but they’ll be something similar in other areas too I’d imagine.
https://www.bradford.gov.uk/media/3276/cousin-marriage-and-genetic-inheritance-leaflet.pdf

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/media/3276/cousin-marriage-and-genetic-inheritance-leaflet.pdf

JoanOfAllTrades · 15/08/2023 14:25

MakeMineAdoubleChocolate · 15/08/2023 14:18

MashAllah, i am a revert myself x @JoanOfAllTrades fell in love as non biased person with an open mind

Allah akhbar, this shows the true glory of His mercy, compassion and love for humanity! This was your own fitrah and mithaaq coming to the forefront xx

madeinmanc · 15/08/2023 14:25

How would you feel if it turned out your Father isn't your genetic father, OP?

monsteramunch · 15/08/2023 14:26

@MakeMineAdoubleChocolate

The only people you ask for permission to go out is your dad and husband. And the reason behind that in Islam is that they know you're safe and your whereabouts. For example, a Muslim sister, I know she wants to go to the library for the kids reading club or to the supermarket, I invited her for the reading club and she said I need to ask my husband first. Fine. He wants to know she is safe and OK. Another friend laughed and said what does he not trust her with another man in the library. I said ok, do you just March out of the house and go out for the day without telling your hubby where you're going. Or does he do that. Then what if she does go to the library and on the way she is involved in a car crash or something, how is her husband going to know where she was. She messages him her whereabouts and she knows he is safe and everyone's happy. Even kids do that. My son messages hey I just left school, on the train now, see you in half an hour. People say oh Muslim women have to ask their husband permission to go out, its not the end of the world. My husband tells me he's going to town, but I don't need to know every single shop/place hes going into. But he tells me because I am his wife, and I say oh if you're popping into tesco can you grab this, that or the other.....its not a problem

Sure, I tell my partner where I'm going to be.

I don't ask his permission.

Because I don't answer to him as we are equals.

Your comment 'do you just March out of the house without telling hubby where you're going?' isn't relevant. Nobody has an issue with someone telling their partner, of either sex, where they're going to be. That isn't what your friend was surprised by. It was that someone asked permission from their partner, as an adult, to do something they shouldn't need someone else's permission to do.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 15/08/2023 14:28

OP, I was struggling to picture your family tree and how that would genetically affect your relationships in respect of a DNA test. I've scribbled something down which I'm happy to post if you would like me to. It's very rough and ready and I only have GCSE knowledge of genetics so I expect it's overly symplified, and somone else with better knowledge will probably be able to correct it.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 15/08/2023 14:28

Or I can PM it to you, I think I can PM a photo.

mirax · 15/08/2023 14:28

From what I understand, this thread is not helping OP at all. She has had many family members telling her all sorts of things - the aunt breastfeeding issue, her conception and parentage and it seems that her depression and fears stem from two sources : the distinct lack of communication and some active lying from her mother as well as the abuse and contradictory signals from the parents (they love her but the mum hits her and the dad is emotionally distant).
All the speculation in the world about IVF is only going to confuse OP further. Going to the mosque imam as advised by others is going to preserve parental authority rather than put OP's needs first. A religion that comes up with such convoluted sexist rules is not going to have good advice on tap.

Posters may not be familiar with islam and may not know things such as adoption being forbidden and adopted children not being able to inherit. This doesnt mean that actual muslim people do not adopt - they are being selective of their religion's rules as most people are. The point I am making is that for OP and her family, her parental origins are very important. Hence the secrecy from the start and also probably some guilt and cognitive dissonance on her parents' part. In undergoing IVF, her parents must have suffered serious misgivings and tried suppressing them by making her as 'family' as they could with the breastfeeding loophole (yes that rule is rather insane but a global religion believes in it).

So Op, I would like to say to you that the blood tie (or otherwise) to your parents is NOT the crux of your problem. They created you, chose to have you and have a responsibility towards you which they haven't seemed to have discharged very well. You are grasping at this straw of IVF conception as a explanation for feeling poorly treated and also as a rationale to leave home. By your reckoning, it will explain and excuse your parents' failing and lessen your guilt in leaving and hurting them. But you know something? Hurt is inevitable whichever way you look at it. You are already hurt and living at home without having some honest conversations with your parents is likely to worsen your mental health. I'd suggest moving out and worrying less about your parents' feelings.

eggandonion · 15/08/2023 14:30

@TossacointoHenryCavill I think someone like you suggest would be useful to talk to. I was thinking an anthropologist who knows about Islam and culture in Pakistan if such a person exists!
I hope op can get some answers... Irish where similar complex relationships and secrecy are still causing issues.

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