To be upset that I was not told I was breast fed by my aunt?

[Evieanne]

So in my family’s religion and culture, breast feeding a baby who isn’t yours still forms kinship and re establishes part of who you cannot marry and who you’re allowed alone with from the opposite sex even within family and who can help marry you off.

In my case, as a baby I was Breast fed by my dad’s sister and I became my aunt’s milk daughter and I am the milk sibling to all of her aunt’s children - so my cousins from my aunty, through me being breast fed, became immediate family to me and are just like my biological siblings. so her male children can no longer marry me and can be alone with me and can be my guardian when I marry as they are considered my brothers.

So it is a huge thing in my family’s religion.

It took my parents a while to conceive, and they used a clinic to finally have me. There were concerns as to whether I was biologically both of my parent’s daughter, but they loved me anyway and said they didn’t want to know. My mum breast fed me a couple times just in case I wasn’t biologically hers and kept me bottle fed after that, so I know I am the mahram of her brothers and her dad. My aunt breast fed me when my parents took me to Pakistan as a baby to make sure there was no way I wasn’t blood family to my aunties and uncles on my dad’s side because my parents are related and there was no cheating, they were wanting to protect family ties. I don’t know why they just didn’t do a dna test.

But they kept this from me and I found out because my mum and my aunt had an argument about it and I was told by my mum I couldn’t be alone with any of cousins from my dad’s side unless female and I asked what about the cousins from this aunt who breast fed me, they’re my brothers ffs!!

Really! I will bow to your superior knowledge, I wonder how my wires got so crossed, maybe my friend misunderstood, or I did.
Still the whole situation seems very unorthodox and I would be taking everything I was told with a pinch of salt until I had proof of I was op as it doesn't seem as though her parents have her best interests at the heart of how they are handling things!

Incest has both a legal and cultural meaning.

In some parts of the world cousin marriage is culturally incestuous, in some places it's not.

In some parts of the world cousin marriage is legally incestuous, in some places it's not.

I don’t think being breast fed makes you a blood relative of whoever. There’s a lot going on but this doesn’t sound an ideal family set up imo. I’d just try and move on and live your life how you want x

The two-egg IVF story doesn't make sense. Lots of lying has been going on I think.

What about your younger siblings OP? Were they conceived through IVF as well?

In the most respectful way - surely if your parents can utilise such a modern concept as IVF (particularly when the egg/sperm used is in question), the rest of the thinking should be equally as modern/free?
ie. You can socialise with whomever you please to.

(That's not to say that I don't believe that everyone should have the freedom to do as they please, but just that it seems a strange thing to pick and choose)

I don't think she's calling the wet nursing ridiculous.

And she's right about not allowing people to be alone etc together.

Tell me if I'm being dim but what possible motivation could there be for hiding the fact that the Aunt breastfed the OP?

I wondered this too as obviously your aunt would have had to have fair recently given birth in order to breast feed you. I don’t understand why your mother gave up breastfeeding to hand you over to your aunt either.

Regardless if your mother is not your biological mother, the aunt who breastfed you will still be your milk mother, as 10 drops of milk have likely been consumed by you and more. And her children will be your 100 percent milk siblings.

A white Muslim family adopted a black boy from a very young age, not long after newborn. The mother breastfed him and he became all the daughters milk brother. And they go out and about with him and people assume he is the husband, but they say no he is our milk brother. And he can see them without hijab and so on.

However, I don't think its unreasonable for you to seek out your heritage.
An very saddened to hear your mother beat you too.
If you feel like you would be better off leaving the family home, and moving on I would suggest a support group and advice from the mosque and support in marrying also. Maybe marrying someone from a completely different culture. I have noticed more Pakistan girls marrying people of different faiths.
There is so much pressure on Pakistan girls to marry Pakistan men and preferably cousins, because they think oh we can all be free mixing without the hijab. Its not true. You still have to wear hijab around the cousins. But I have seen Pakistan women now marrying men from other Asian countries and African countries. And they say oh my mother was so disappointed I married a black man. Its a real shame. But actually is he not a Muslim too?

It doesn't matter but sadly Asian families like Pakistan and bengali prefer to keep it in the family or at least in their country. I married someone from a different country/culture and then I reverted myself because I fell in love with islam. My parents didn't care hes black. They were happy for me. They didn't even care when they saw me wearing the headscarf.

With repesct to cousin marriage, My friend is Pakistan and her husband is her cousin, her mother in law and father in Law are cousins and married. Her father and mother are cousins and married. Her other cousins are married to another. And a lot of the kids have mental issues. I think they are also planning for the kids to marry other cousins too when old enough.
And this is a big problem. Because if you're constantly marrying cousins, the children end up with disabilities etc.
Its OK to do here and there. But not consistently everyone in the family is married to one another.

On the side of permission, you don't need permission from milk brothers to go out and about. This is so ridiculous. Its like asking your brother for permission to go out and about. The only people you ask for permission to go out is your dad and husband. And the reason behind that in Islam is that they know you're safe and your whereabouts. For example, a Muslim sister, I know she wants to go to the library for the kids reading club or to the supermarket, I invited her for the reading club and she said I need to ask my husband first. Fine. He wants to know she is safe and OK. Another friend laughed and said what does he not trust her with another man in the library. I said ok, do you just March out of the house and go out for the day without telling your hubby where you're going. Or does he do that. Then what if she does go to the library and on the way she is involved in a car crash or something, how is her husband going to know where she was. She messages him her whereabouts and she knows he is safe and everyone's happy. Even kids do that. My son messages hey I just left school, on the train now, see you in half an hour. People say oh Muslim women have to ask their husband permission to go out, its not the end of the world. My husband tells me he's going to town, but I don't need to know every single shop/place hes going into. But he tells me because I am his wife, and I say oh if you're popping into tesco can you grab this, that or the other.....its not a problem

Finally, mumsnet is the last place to go to for islamic advice. A lot of people don't get Islam sadly. There are some sisters on here to get good advice from but id suggest going to the sisters section of the mosque and asking for advice. Some non Muslims on here can be good and supportive with good ideas and kind suggestions but unfortunately there is still a lot of prejudice around.

Wish you all the best, asalam alaikum.

I agree, but people keep stating that "you should never marry a first cousin" and I wanted to offset that generalisation.

@betterchange

Not if they're all as interrelated as the OP has just said they are.

Yeah I see what you mean. My mum and dad are first cousins once removed. My nana and my dad are first cousins, so My nana’s mum and my granddad (dad’s dad) are brother and sister. And my mum’s dad’s mum is also the sister of my grandad and my other great grandmother. So it’s quite close if you will.

@PimpMyFridge yes I agree it's an awful and confusing situation for OP. Nowadays we're encouraged to tell children early and often if they are donor conceived (and we will certainly be doing that) but 20+ years ago doctors encouraged parents to not tell their children. Studies have shown finding out late causes trauma and I really sympathise with OP it must be so upsetting. Logically the only way to know the truth for sure if a DNA test for OP and both her parents but appreciate it's not that easy.x

This

Some people are saying the aunt could be the biological mother. But that doesn't make sense because if she were, then the breastfeeding by her wouldn't have been necessary. So surely that idea can be wiped from the list of possibilities? 🤔

Ok, there are two issues here. (I'm South Asian but not Muslim and I'm not familiar with these norms). First, let's say a donor egg was used, presumably your mother still physically carried you and gave birth to you. But you are truly upset about how she behaved with you and you are wondering if the embryo that stuck wasn't hers. But if she hasn't done a DNA she wouldn't know that.
Perhaps for you it is easier to believe that your mother was cruel to you for this reason than to accept that a mother could do this to her own child?

The other explanation is that either the donor egg was your aunt's or that your aunt carried you and gave birth to you. I don't know easy it would be in the UK to conceal this in terms of birth certificates but it seems far fetched. Do you have a good relationship with your auntie? Is there a part of you that sees her as more of your 'mother' than your own biological mother? One thing to think about is if your aunt has a child of a similar age (or slightly older) to you otherwise she would not be lactating.

The milk brothers thing for now is a red herring. What you are really upset about is your mother's cruel treatment of you and you are trying to understand why you feel you don't fit in, and why you were treated this way. I think trying to work through this may be more helpful than trying to do DNA tests, or working out who breastfed whom.

I have a full birth certificate with their names on it, that means I’m definitely not adopted right?

The person who told me about the ivf thing is not the same person who told me about the breast feeding and I’m trying to find out the truth if maybe they know what country or if it’s something my parents kept quiet about. She mentioned something about tandem ivf cycles but how long has that been around for I don’t know? I’m worried reading about it now, I think I’m going to stop googling it’s making me feel sick. Because if the ivf thing wasn’t true then my parents would have been the first to say it wasn’t true and offer a test but their lack of action worries me.

Not if she was the egg donor and no DNA test has been done, they would never know.

@JoanOfAllTrades I am applauding you ! Drop that dawaah, sister like its hot!

That's somewhat overblown. The risk is about equal to a woman in her 40s getting pregnant - but we don't try to dissuade that from happening.

Irrespective of the religion and God, why isn't ivf seen as being against gods will?

Look who knows what secrets there are to your parentage. Maybe they implanted two embryos, maybe (and don't hate me for this), your mum had an affair, or your dad had an affair, or this is your aunt's child and you were adopted? I confess to not knowing how the birth certificate thing works. Even the most religious upright families have secrets.
What we do know as a fact is that your mother treated you badly.
And that you feel like you don't fit in and you want freedom and you want answers as to why she was a bad mother.

I'm afraid that the answers to that question may not lie in a simple DNA test or in biology alone. Would you feel better if you find out if you were your parents' child biologically but she was still a detached mum?

In view of the inter- relative marriages in your family I revoke my previous suggestion.
I think you need counselling before any DNA test. And then the results of that would have to be explained to you as there are too many complications.

Think seriously about moving away with your friend, start your own lives separate from all the mess your parents seem to have created. You are you and once you build up a strong self identity by supporting yourself, living the way you want to live, you’ll be more able to deal with their secrecy. Good luck.

If she is the aunt's bio child, the easiest way for her aunt to ensure OP never married another of the aunt's children would be for the aunt to breastfeed OP and make the relationship of milk brothers where marriage is not allowed between the 'cousins' who are actually siblings, genetically.

I have never heard of such a thing but this is ridiculous... Being milk related won't change your DNA test -_- of you share blood then your going to be related. I am so confused!!!

I am a Muslim from a different ethnic background/culture and everything you wrote is completely alien to me. I had no idea about milk brothers.

honestly I mean this in the best of ways. MN is a majority white middle class female website. Most people here will not understand or see beyond any of the cultural references in your OP. Most won’t care to and will just hammer on about their perceived superior way of living/culture. I really think get some advice from a trusted member of your local community?