Worried my Sons will be left with nothing

[JaffaCake70]

My Husband and I are both early 50s and have been married just over a year (together 3 years in October).

Before we met I had been renting private accommodation. When we married I moved into my Husband's house which he had been paying the mortgage on for around 5 years, he had also paid a large deposit when he moved into the property as he had sold a previous property. We now both contribute to the mortgage and all other household expenses. We re-mortgaged to the tune of £10,000 to pay for our wedding and honeymoon.

We haven't really had any serious conversations about finances apart from the agreement of how much I would pay into the home but now I'm starting to worry. I know I need to speak to my Husband about the things I'm about to discuss with you, but I just wanted to see if anyone can advise me where I stand legally before I have the conversation.

My Husband has an adult Son and Daughter, his Daughter lives with us, I have 2 adult Sons, neither of whom live with us.

We both have decent pensions, if anything should happen to him before he cashes his, I would receive it and vice versa (he would receive mine). This has all been put into place.

He has told me that if he should die before me, the proceeds of the house are being split 3 ways between me, his Son and his Daughter.

My worry is: What is being left to my Sons should I die first?

This is really playing on my mind because the way it looks to me on paper is that they wouldn't get anything.

Is there anything I can do to change this? Can I split my pension 3 ways so that my Sons get a 3rd each?

What will happen to my 3rd of the house if I were to die first? I am now paying into the house, surely my Sons should be entitled to something in the event of my death? How does it work though? For example, if I were to die in 10 years time (God forbid) but my Husband then went on to live for another 20 years, maybe even marries again, what happens to my 3rd of the property?

I'm really worried that I've put my Sons in the position of not receiving anything at all if I were to die before my Husband. I don't have any savings to bequeath to them, the only money I have of my own is my pension.

Do I have any legal standing in stating that I want my 3rd of the property to be divided between my Sons in the event of my death. I still feel it's a little unfair that my Sons would be receiving less than my Husband's children (as in his children would still receive a 3rd each, my Sons would have to share my 3rd).

I'm stressing myself out with all of this, I know I need to speak to my Husband but don't want to come across as money grabbing as I'm really not. I just want to know that my Sons will be provided for financially in the event of my death.

YABU - Your Sons should not be entitled to anything from the house

YANBU - You work just as hard as your Husband and are now paying an equal amount into the home therefore your Sons definitely are entitled to a percentage of the house.

But more than YA/YANBU opinions, please can anyone advise as to what I should do/say in this situation?

I think a conversation with your husband is very much needed, and depending on his viewpoint of the situation would determine who, if I were you, I were to leave my pension to.
Hindsight is such a good thing, but really this should have been sorted out before you got married and started paying into his house.

You need legal advice before you talk to your husband.

There is a chance he will try to bamboozle you or reassure you (and to be blunt, you don't sound very savvy re. finances.)

In terms of money, people need to be hard nosed. No matter how much in love a couple are, things can change. you always need to work on the worst-case scenario of being left high and dry , so need a plan in place to protect yourself.

Being subservient to a man and accepting what he says (in his best interests) is not the way to go.

I have only read the OPs posts.

You have questioned another poster saying it's 50/50 division in marriage but that is incorrect. It's a starting point for long marriages and/or with joint young children. Neither applies to you. If you divorced now a judge would put you back to pre marriage status, you would probably have to be marriedat least five years before that changed.

Moving forward the fairest way is he ring fences his deposit, then you do a percentage share of the house depending on how long the mortgage term is. Basically if you put in only 20% then in the event of death or divorce you only get 20% of the profit back. In your situation I would take out a life insurance policy on yourself to be split between your children.

I agree with the others, unless you signed something with the bank then you are not on the mortgage. You need to see a copy of the deeds too.

The more I read your OP the more outrageous this appears.

What he is doing is potentially making you homeless IF you have explained it properly.

You say that when he dies the house proceeds will be split 3 ways.

So is he saying that when he dies (and men die earlier than women usually), your house will be sold. You would get a third.

So you would have to move out in your 70s or 80s perhaps and do what? Rent? Try to buy somewhere with your third?

OR does he mean that when you BOTH die, you would get a third and the rest go to his children?

Either you are confused or he is very very unreasonable and needs calling out on it.

You sound so grabby. Bet he didn’t know what he was marrying when he got with you.
You want a house that’s not yours.

I don’t understand why you didn’t take legal advice and redo your wills before you married. Nobody can answer this question other than a solicitor. I say that any gains in the value of the house from when you moved in shoul be split 50/50 to you and his kids. This would be fairest You then leave your 50% to your kids.

I agree. Also if you only own one third of the house you should only pay towards one third of the repairs and maintenance.

Youve had good advice on this thread, you need to read it carefully, look at all the paperwork and discuss it with your husband. Once you know what the current situation is you can take the paperwork to your own solicitor and seek their advice.

Remember that wills ( and assignments of pensions ) can be changed without anyone else knowing about it. But deeds of properties can’t. I know someone who paid for half of everything with her partner for decades , because she thought she owned half it . He even showed her legal papers to prove it .

He was lying and she didn’t own it. He left her and she got nothing, as she paid things like the car, shopping, childcare , holidays , days out, furniture . He paid the mortgage .

As PP have said, you nee to plan for all the different outcomes re death and divorce .

The fact that I didn't have anything before doesn't take away from the fact that I am now paying a substantial monthly amount into the house, and may well be doing for the next 20 or so years

Quite right, but what you're paying is a function of sharing fairly with your husband within the marriage, and to my mind inheritance for the kids is a whole separate issue - especially when he's not their father and already has kids of his own

I agree though that what you need is proper professional advice, an in depth conversation with him, and possibly a life insurance policy which will eventually pay something to your sons

this!

As some others have advised: it is best to seek legal advice from a lawyer who specialises in Property Law.

As your husband had already purchased the property prior to meeting you, it is highly likely that the Title Deeds on the Land Registry are solely in his name, as would the mortgage. As his spouse, the property should pass on to you even if you're not mentioned on the mortgage. I believe the only thing that prevents it from happening is if your husband has a Will that stipulates the above should not happen and that your legal share be passed to his children instead and distributed as you've mentioned - and then you have agreed and gone on to sign the Will.

You only need to show that you have a beneficial interest in the property to have rights to any of the sale proceeds by proving that you have contributed financially towards the property or towards its upkeep (therefore, it would help you considerably if you can prove you have contributed towards monthly mortgage repayments. Obviously, if your husband demands that you pay him cash every month towards the mortgage, then it would be difficult to prove and you would have to rely solely on your position as a spouse).

To ensure that your sons inherit anything from you in the event of your death, you only need to contact a lawyer and have a Will drawn up yourself. In it, you can say what and how much passes on to whom. All of the finer details are up to you.

Again, it is definitely worth the effort to consult a property lawyer to establish your rights and the best course of action to take in your situation. Good luck!

I agree, very greedy!

You are 50+ years old.

What have you been doing for the last 30 years? Where’s your house?

How many years are left on mortgage versus how many years you will be laying into it?

Some odd posts on this thread, OP, about you being grabby. I think you're absolutely right to get this sorted.

Also quite a few misconceptions and incorrect advice.

Firstly, unless I missed it, I don't believe that you've said whether you're in England, Wales or Scotland, or elsewhere, which will the law applicable.

Even if your DH had added you to the mortgage (which as you've signed nothing, as others have pointed out) that's not the same as having any rights to even part of the house. You could be named on the mortgage and not own any of the house. It may help with an eventual claim to dispute the will, but that will cost a fortune in legal fees. It's very complicated (as with most areas of law). Most likely at the very least you need to register home rights.

From what you've said so far, it seems that your husband's children would be able to evict you if he died. Depending how you then set up the property ownership, this may still be the case.

You really need individual, specific legal advice. Without all the particulars, it's impossible to know what will apply to you or not.

@JaffaCake70
You were paying rent into a property prior to moving into his house and would likely be paying rent if you were to move out tomorrow. Would you expect you or your children to be entitled to s share of the property should the Iand lord die?
You are probably paying less to live with you husband than you were paying to live in the rental.
Marriage is not a way of insuring an inheritance for your adult children. In my state, premarital assets do not become joint property.

Whatever provisions you were making prior to your uld be what you should do. Even though you make a financial contribution in your current home that likely only covers what it cost for you to live in that home.

You have to live somewhere and it could cost you to live in that ' somewhere " so you are not being taken advantage of by your husband's proposal. If you feel that he is benefiting unfairly from your contribution to your share of your living expenses , you may want to reconfigure your contribution.

You can allocate your pension funds in whatever manner you see fit.

The house should be left fully to each spouse in the event of a death and then when the surviving spouse dies, the inheritance should be equally split four ways for the grown up children.

Precisely. You had nothing to leave your children until you met this man and decided they deserve an inheritance.

What I don’t get is that at some point, it was decided that you pay a monthly amount-you won’t tell us how much it is or whether it’s less or more than your rent-but a conversation must have taken place. How did you decide that you’d pay £300/500/£1000 or whatever? You must have discussed how much he was paying, how much you were paying, what would be fair. Didn’t you? Did you think this was fair?

Leave your pension 100% to your children. He doesn’t need to know - just arrange it directly with your pension company. If he ever actually adds your name to the property then you can revisit - but my gut instinct is he’s lying to you.

How much are you paying towards the mortgage? How much towards day to day living costs? It might be you are paying a substantial amount towards the actual property but its also possible that your dh is subsidising your day to day living costs. Without actual figures no one has a clue. A substantial amount is also subjective. A 1 person household i know has a running cost of approximately £900 a month and that's not taking a mortgage into account, another is closer to £400. You really do need to sit down and find out exactly what you are paying for and whether you are putting money into the asset or just think you are.

The remarks about you would be paying rent anyway are flawed logic, OP, don't take them to heart:

• firstly, that's not the way the law stands and,

• secondly, previous to meeting you, OP, your husband was paying the full mortgage - now he's only paying half, potentially for 20 years or more and will still own 100 per cent of the property and the equity thanks to you - it's ñot you that's greedy in that case!

How much are you paying per month OP? Is he paying the same amount?

How much deposit did he put down?

Your not being unreasonable on the surface but we need facts and figures to determine if this is grabby or justified.

And OP is being very sly in her answers re: the husband's children's mother. She cagily said that it was a first wedding for both her and her husband, but won't say if the mother of the stepchildren had ever lived in the house or paid toward it. Or if the husband had been previously married to his children's mother.

It sounds as if finances were tight for him, but OP insisted on unwise financial steps to obtain the 10k for a wedding/honeymoon because she had never been abroad. What if the husband's children's mother was more financially responsible than OP, so didn't want a fancy wedding or honeymoon? How much did the husband's children's mother contribute to this house?

I agree OP is very grabby. This is why women need to ensure plans for their children in the case of their deaths are in place. Imagine if your husband were to marry someone like OP after your death and your children lose out.

When I married my husband last year my will had to be redone, as the old will was obsolete because Id remarried. We are in our 50s.
We live together in my house with 2 dependent teens, one his & one mine.
I also have 3 adult DC.
My husband owns 1% of his old house. It was put in his DS name when his mum died. We rent that out currently as DS wants to live in it after uni.
My house - 10% goes to hubby. Then remainder between my 4 kids.
If I didn't have a will my DH would be left everything when I die. My life insurance is going to my youngest if she's under 25 to get her through uni. If she's older it's split between 4 kids & hubby.
I have Stage 4 cancer so it's quite likely I'm dying first. My will states my DH has a lifetime interest in my house so he can live there till his death.
Not sure what happens if he needs to pay care bills for himself. I don't think the house can be sold for that. Only my name is on the deeds. But I should probably look into that.

I don't think you can expect your sons to get an equal share in a house you have only just started contributing to. And if you & your DH haven't redone your wills since marrying you will need to.

This.

My first instinct is to get a handle on whether your dh was lying to you when he said you were on the deeds. Go to the land registry site which Yea2023 linked to to find out whether you are on the title, when he bought the property and also whether the property is mortgaged (subject to a charge and if so, in favour of which bank). This record will give you independent information with which to judge whether your dh is lying to you.

Also consider whether you have misheard him. People who bury their head in the sand and prefer not to know about finances usually hear what they want to hear and ignore the rest they don't understand. Could it be this situation?

Do consult the lawyer before you see your dh. The lawyer will advise how to approach negotiations with your dh. Sometimes bringing in lawyer too early will slow things down because it makes things more adversarial from the start. You need to go on a fact finding mission if possible.

The things you need to know include to feed into the negotiations are:

(1) What was the purchase price and how much deposit did he pay
(2) What is the property worth now
(3) What sort of mortgage is it? Repayment or interest only, flexible?
(4) How much has he contributed to mortgage repayments so far
(5) How long more has the mortgage to run and what is the current repayment amount (bear in mind interest rates, if not fixed from prior, are currently at an all time high)
(6) How much are expenses for running the household, including utilities, food,
(7) What is a fair share of your contribution to those expenses considering that his adult dd lives with you both
(8) What amount are you currently contributing per month? Your contribution to the mortgage should deduct your share of expenses in (7)
(9) How is this picture likely to change over time

I am sure there are other figures I have missed but once you have the above, you and your solicitor can work out a fair split and change the title deeds and wills accordingly. As others said, only the title deeds stick (i.e. cannot be changed without your consent). Your dh can change his will anytime without your consent and notice to you so don't rely on his will.

But first of all, work out how much you can trust your dh on finances.

OP I think I would deal with the assets individually as the legal (and moral) position on each are quite different.

1. Your pension: what type of pension(s) do you have? If it is a defined contribution pension, where you/your employer have paid set amounts into and the fund is invested, you have some flexibility over how this is allocated. Usually, you can lodge an "expression of wishes" (a very standard form they will provide) with the pension provider. You could say, for example, that you want to allocate one third to your husband and one third to each of your children. It is not legally binding but is very likely to be respected by the pension provider on your death. However, it doesn't leave anything for your sons if you have spent most/all of it by the time you die so you need to consider the realistic outcome.

If you have a defined benefit pension scheme (e.g. a final salary pension, usually more likely if you were employed by the public sector or very large private companies) you have less options and benefits will usually only be payable to your spouse or financially dependant children.

1. the house: it is not possible for him to "add you to the mortgage" without you signing for this. It is quite concerning if he has lied to you. You can find out who the owners are by checking the land registry and will get an instant result for about £3. Are you paying more/less into the house than you were when you were renting? If more, then I definitely think it is reasonable for you to be building up some sort of entitlement in the form of ownership rights. You need legal advice on this.

PPs have said that a marital asset is half yours, but that's only really the case on divorce. On your husband's death, the house will be divided according to his Will (assuming he is the only owner which seems likely at this point). This would leave you in a very precarious position as your stepchildren would own more of the house than you and you'd have no right to continue living there.

Far more common in a second marriage, is to arrange an "interest in possession" trust on the death of the owner (your husband) as part of his Will. This would give you the right to live in the property for the rest of your lifetime, although his children would be the ultimate owners who would benefit on your death. As it currently stands, if you die first, your children get nothing from the house.

1. Life assurance: you should definitely arrange cover on your life. However, be careful that it is not money returned to your estate as this would be diviided according to your Will (or automatically all go to your husband if you don't have a Will). Instead, either set it up in Trust for the benefit of your sons (again, the life assurance provider will have a standard form for this), or have your sons set up the policy in their own names, with you as the life assured.

Sorry that was a bit long! Summary is basically:

1. Find out what type of pension you have
2. Speak to a solicitor re the property, you are very unlikely to be protected on your husband's death and this is the biggest issue.
3. Set up life assurance but make sure the proceeds go direct to your sons