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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Worried my Sons will be left with nothing

574 replies

JaffaCake70 · 14/08/2023 09:10

My Husband and I are both early 50s and have been married just over a year (together 3 years in October).

Before we met I had been renting private accommodation. When we married I moved into my Husband's house which he had been paying the mortgage on for around 5 years, he had also paid a large deposit when he moved into the property as he had sold a previous property. We now both contribute to the mortgage and all other household expenses. We re-mortgaged to the tune of £10,000 to pay for our wedding and honeymoon.

We haven't really had any serious conversations about finances apart from the agreement of how much I would pay into the home but now I'm starting to worry. I know I need to speak to my Husband about the things I'm about to discuss with you, but I just wanted to see if anyone can advise me where I stand legally before I have the conversation.

My Husband has an adult Son and Daughter, his Daughter lives with us, I have 2 adult Sons, neither of whom live with us.

We both have decent pensions, if anything should happen to him before he cashes his, I would receive it and vice versa (he would receive mine). This has all been put into place.

He has told me that if he should die before me, the proceeds of the house are being split 3 ways between me, his Son and his Daughter.

My worry is: What is being left to my Sons should I die first?

This is really playing on my mind because the way it looks to me on paper is that they wouldn't get anything.

Is there anything I can do to change this? Can I split my pension 3 ways so that my Sons get a 3rd each?

What will happen to my 3rd of the house if I were to die first? I am now paying into the house, surely my Sons should be entitled to something in the event of my death? How does it work though? For example, if I were to die in 10 years time (God forbid) but my Husband then went on to live for another 20 years, maybe even marries again, what happens to my 3rd of the property?

I'm really worried that I've put my Sons in the position of not receiving anything at all if I were to die before my Husband. I don't have any savings to bequeath to them, the only money I have of my own is my pension.

Do I have any legal standing in stating that I want my 3rd of the property to be divided between my Sons in the event of my death. I still feel it's a little unfair that my Sons would be receiving less than my Husband's children (as in his children would still receive a 3rd each, my Sons would have to share my 3rd).

I'm stressing myself out with all of this, I know I need to speak to my Husband but don't want to come across as money grabbing as I'm really not. I just want to know that my Sons will be provided for financially in the event of my death.

YABU - Your Sons should not be entitled to anything from the house

YANBU - You work just as hard as your Husband and are now paying an equal amount into the home therefore your Sons definitely are entitled to a percentage of the house.

But more than YA/YANBU opinions, please can anyone advise as to what I should do/say in this situation?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Cosyblankets · 17/08/2023 13:28

maddening · 16/08/2023 20:30

Once married she also owns the house

Show quote history

We live in "my" house that i owned outright before i met my husband. I've never changed the deeds or anything. If he dies there's no way he can leave his "half" to someone else!
If we divorced he may well argue for something i suppose .
I've left him the house in my will. (No kids) but if he dies i won't be moving out! It's my house.

mindutopia · 17/08/2023 13:54

I can't imagine anyone could just 'add you to the mortgage'. I mean, I've never tried, but the hoops that dh and I had to jump through to get a mortgage. Surely the bank would need to check your credit and you would need to sign to agree to take on the debt.

That said, mortgage or no mortgage, you need to sort out your ownership of the property, because being on the mortgage does not mean you own the property. You can set up to own as tenants in common and work out a suitable percentage ownership based on your contributions and the equity at the point of marriage. You need to see a solicitor for that.

Beyond that though, it's very typical at a certain age not to combine assets in this way. When MIL got re-married (late 50s), it was made very clear that her husband would have no rights to her property and they formalised that legally/in wills. It's not mortgaged, she owns it outright, but her partner has lived there for 15 years now, and when she dies, if he is still alive, he has a right to continue to live there until his death, but the property belongs to dh and BIL. As it should. It's their family home and has been in the family for generations. MIL's partner did own a home before. He sold it and bought an RV (shame for his kids that that's a rubbish investment, but hey ho) and he has a small investment property (land) that will go to his children.

whathappenedtosummer23 · 17/08/2023 19:02

mindutopia · 17/08/2023 13:54

I can't imagine anyone could just 'add you to the mortgage'. I mean, I've never tried, but the hoops that dh and I had to jump through to get a mortgage. Surely the bank would need to check your credit and you would need to sign to agree to take on the debt.

That said, mortgage or no mortgage, you need to sort out your ownership of the property, because being on the mortgage does not mean you own the property. You can set up to own as tenants in common and work out a suitable percentage ownership based on your contributions and the equity at the point of marriage. You need to see a solicitor for that.

Beyond that though, it's very typical at a certain age not to combine assets in this way. When MIL got re-married (late 50s), it was made very clear that her husband would have no rights to her property and they formalised that legally/in wills. It's not mortgaged, she owns it outright, but her partner has lived there for 15 years now, and when she dies, if he is still alive, he has a right to continue to live there until his death, but the property belongs to dh and BIL. As it should. It's their family home and has been in the family for generations. MIL's partner did own a home before. He sold it and bought an RV (shame for his kids that that's a rubbish investment, but hey ho) and he has a small investment property (land) that will go to his children.

Correct. DP can live in my mortgage free house for the rest of his life if I go first but it will then be shared equally between my 3 children. He and his family have no claim to it.

Bertiesmum3 · 17/08/2023 19:20

Why should any son/daughter of anyone be entitled to anything??
All my money is being left to charity!!

Mari9999 · 17/08/2023 23:13

@JaffaCake70
Why not just get legal advice in the jurisdiction in which you and your husband live? That would eliminate all of the misinformation and uninformed opinions that you are currently receiving.

It does not matter what people believe to be fair. It does not matter what happened to my third cousin living in another state. It does not matter what you did or did not say in your wedding vows.

The only thing that matters are the laws governing marital assets and inheritance in the jurisdiction where you live.

BackAgainstWall · 17/08/2023 23:47

How long has he had the house?
How much equity is in it?

I think you/your sons should only get what is proportionally your bit and no more.

NewName122 · 18/08/2023 02:21

Yabu op. It's your husbands house and should go to his kids.

1WomanWonder · 21/08/2023 20:35

Do let us know how things worked out @JaffaCake70.

YerArseInParsley · 24/08/2023 00:53

@poetryandwine

JaffaCake70 · 14/08/2023 09:10

My Husband and I are both early 50s and have been married just over a year (together 3 years in October).

Before we met I had been renting private accommodation. When we married I moved into my Husband's house which he had been paying the mortgage on for around 5 years, he had also paid a large deposit when he moved into the property as he had sold a previous property. We now both contribute to the mortgage and all other household expenses. We re-mortgaged to the tune of £10,000 to pay for our wedding and honeymoon.

We haven't really had any serious conversations about finances apart from the agreement of how much I would pay into the home but now I'm starting to worry. I know I need to speak to my Husband about the things I'm about to discuss with you, but I just wanted to see if anyone can advise me where I stand legally before I have the conversation.

My Husband has an adult Son and Daughter, his Daughter lives with us, I have 2 adult Sons, neither of whom live with us.

We both have decent pensions, if anything should happen to him before he cashes his, I would receive it and vice versa (he would receive mine). This has all been put into place.

He has told me that if he should die before me, the proceeds of the house are being split 3 ways between me, his Son and his Daughter.

My worry is: What is being left to my Sons should I die first?

This is really playing on my mind because the way it looks to me on paper is that they wouldn't get anything.

Is there anything I can do to change this? Can I split my pension 3 ways so that my Sons get a 3rd each?

What will happen to my 3rd of the house if I were to die first? I am now paying into the house, surely my Sons should be entitled to something in the event of my death? How does it work though? For example, if I were to die in 10 years time (God forbid) but my Husband then went on to live for another 20 years, maybe even marries again, what happens to my 3rd of the property?

I'm really worried that I've put my Sons in the position of not receiving anything at all if I were to die before my Husband. I don't have any savings to bequeath to them, the only money I have of my own is my pension.

Do I have any legal standing in stating that I want my 3rd of the property to be divided between my Sons in the event of my death. I still feel it's a little unfair that my Sons would be receiving less than my Husband's children (as in his children would still receive a 3rd each, my Sons would have to share my 3rd).

I'm stressing myself out with all of this, I know I need to speak to my Husband but don't want to come across as money grabbing as I'm really not. I just want to know that my Sons will be provided for financially in the event of my death.

I think you'll find OP DOES find it unfair that her kids are not getting the same share of the house as her husbands kids. Where have I lied or went wrong in my comments?

Yes, OP wants to split her pension 3 ways to include her Sons. How is that fair to her husband when he's expected to give all his pension to OP? If splitting her pension 3 ways is the way to go, OPs Husband should also be splitting his pension 3 ways.

So, what's the problem?

YerArseInParsley · 24/08/2023 00:57

JaffaCake70 · 15/08/2023 08:24

Yes it is 100% his money, at no point did I say it wasn't. I was merely correcting a previous poster who'd stated that my Husband worked hard to pay the deposit. This is factually incorrect. My Husband IS a hard worker but the deposit was paid from the proceeds of a property he inherited from a family member. Therefore the deposit wasn't paid via my Husband's hard work. I am stating fact here.

At no point did I state that it wasn't his money so I don't understand why you would imply that I did 🤔

Show quote history

It doesn't matter how he got the money.

Codlingmoths · 24/08/2023 01:36

I think the way you need to phrase it to your dh is I need to be working towards leaving somethign behind for my children. Now I know you said I was on the deeds but I don’t think that you’ve got around to it as I would have had to sign something. So I have had a look at rental costs and I suggest I drop my house payments to a fair rental amount, so I can put the extra into investments for my children. If you do get around to signing over a portion of the house, and mortgage of course, to me, then obviously I’ll happily go back to paying off the mortgage. But at the moment I can’t do that as it just means I’m going to leave my children with nothing - I don’t even know if they can inherit my pension if I’m married so by marrying you I may have cut them out of the only inheritance they had. I’m checking into that.

that's clear, fair, it gives you a path to take control, where you don’t have to convince him to act and you don’t depend on him signing part of the house over to you (if this is happening make sure you quietly get the arrangements checked with a lawyer to know it is, it does sound like he’s misled you on this topic, which is a pretty important one. And just putting you on the mortgage doesn’t give you any ownership of the house, only of the debt on it, whcih would be extremely unfair) . So have the conversation, and drop your payments and start saving the excess -put it every month into bonds, stocks, maybe start another thread to work out the plan as I don’t understand uk isas etc.

greyhairnomore · 24/08/2023 08:04

BashfulClam · 14/08/2023 09:13

I think you need legal bc advice as I dint think he can split the property like that. It is a marital home/asset so you are entitled to half. If

My partner has split his house between me and his children. Legally in a will.
I wouldn't expect him to leave my daughter anything.

Yalta · 24/08/2023 10:55

greyhairnomore Being in someone’s will doesn’t give you any security as wills can be changed.

Mari9999 · 24/08/2023 13:26

This is an issue that is likely covered by law in the jurisdiction in which the OP and her husband live. It is pointless to guess or speculate. If the OP is concerned about the accurate answer, she will seek legal advice. This is not an issue of fairness or expectation. It is an issue of what the law dictates and permits.

It does not appear that this desire to leave her children a property interest has been a life long goal. The children are now adults and the OP has been making payments towards someone's property interest (in her rental payments ) for a very long time .

Islandgirl68 · 24/08/2023 14:37

No it's not. When they met he still was paying a mortgage, and she has contributed ti that mortgage, he did not own it outright. So if she has contributed as she said she has then of course she is entitled to a share. Ie if she has contributed a third of the house, then she would be entitled to a third of the house.

poetryandwine · 24/08/2023 14:46

The OP has currently been making the payments for only a few years, @Mari9999 , but will potentially make them for a long time. Otherwise I agree with you . She desperately needs legal advice.

poetryandwine · 24/08/2023 14:52

@YerArseInParsley considering the sequence the OP has used to order her thoughts, it is clear she is proposing to share her pension 3 ways to protect her sons if she dies first and they have no share of the property. It is currently the only way the can inherit. Seems fine to me

poetryandwine · 24/08/2023 14:55

@YerArseInParsley OpP’s husband is taking money from her every month as rent. He owes her his pension in return, especially if he is sharing out his house 3 ways

Mari9999 · 24/08/2023 15:56

@poetryandwine
The OP has been paying rent seemingly most of her adult life and yet she has yet to state or expecting that she is owed a properly interest in any of those properties.

Had she said to her husband " when I marry you, I will expect any payment that I make towards my share of the food, you utilities, and household amenities (i.e. cable, car insurance, etc ) to be assumed to be me contributing towards your mortgage and an ownership interest in your existing property that will be entailed to my children. " It is quite likely that the husband would perhaps not have entered into a marriage if he had been aware of her expectation. Marriage should not be your plan for means of ownership or asset acquisition.

In any case , laws are in place that outline and detail what happens in such situations. The laws in their jurisdiction will govern what is allowed to happen.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 24/08/2023 17:08

It is quite likely that the husband would perhaps not have entered into a marriage if he had been aware of her expectation

Though we'll never know, that could easily explain why they "never had any serious conversations about finances" - at least before the marriage

Absolutely fair enough for OP to consider her own interests, but who could have blamed him if he'd stepped back on discovering she wanted to use his assets to provide for her adult DCs too?

As has been said before, if this had been a man expecting the same the sky would have fallen on here ...

ssd · 24/08/2023 17:39

Oh christ if this had been a man mn would have exploded

anonymousxoxo · 25/08/2023 07:26

ssd · 24/08/2023 17:39

Oh christ if this had been a man mn would have exploded

Yup, flamed

VeraMay · 27/08/2023 07:01

Write a will. A good solicitor can guide you. You can also write a letter of intent which reinforces your intention in the will.

Hoppysue · 27/08/2023 10:08

Yellowlegobrick · 16/08/2023 07:17

Fairest approach is to ring fence the % of the house which was his deposit for his children, then, on the basis you are contributing equally, split the remaining value 50/50 and you leave your bit to your sons.

Usually there are legal ways to provide for whoever outlives the other to continue living in the property until their death.

It’s not just his deposit which should be ringfenced but also any equity which has been added up to the point she is also paying half the mortgage. Any value added after this time would then be split 50/50

Cosyblankets · 27/08/2023 10:31

Hoppysue · 27/08/2023 10:08

It’s not just his deposit which should be ringfenced but also any equity which has been added up to the point she is also paying half the mortgage. Any value added after this time would then be split 50/50

Show quote history

We don't actually know she is paying the mortgage though she only has his word for it that she's on the mortgage. If she was on the mortgage she would have had to at least produce ID and sign something. You can't just ring up the bank and say I'd like to add my wife to the mortgage.
For all we know the money she is paying him might not even cover bills.
She's never been back to tell us