To think "gentle parents" are setting their kids up for a lifetime of friendlessness and struggling to hold down a job?

[ForestGoblin]

You get one chance to build the neural pathways that guide you for the rest of your life and if you don't learn that you're not the centre of anyone else's universe as a young kid you never will.

I'm assuming little children. And yes, authoritarian parenting does produce short term obedience. Kids are scared so they do what they are told. Gentle parenting takes time and perseverance ad repetition. See those same children in a few years and you might be surprised. The ones shouted at and hit can be depressed and anxious. Or realising that they are now bigger and can hit and shout back. Or they act out the same behaviours on others.

I remember the nicest child in DD's class. Kai was sweet, quiet, so well-behaved. Raised by a detached, addicted mum and a very authoritarian grandfather. Dragged by his arm if he said anything wrong. Shouted at. No empathy. DD was a little hellion in comparison. Now some years later he's a complete mess and DD is a model student and person.

We're not just controlling children, we're raising effective adults. It might be harder work for a few early years times but in the end it's a piece of piss.

My DB and wife gentle parent. "Why are you trying to stand on there table? Can you see anyone else doing that?" ... child looking around, a little confused then sitting back down to eat.
Seems to work for them all very relaxed happy and confident pretty well behaved from what I can see.

I personally haven't seen "gentle parenting" as posts claim it is on here when done "correctly" ever in RL with that label attached - could be my social circles could be my view of good parenting has some of it in anyway picking my battle not overusing no but not overwhelming with choice beyond their comprehension - it always seems to be permissive parenting claiming it's gentle.

But no the children are surprisingly not doomed - ones I know usually calm down in middle/later primary - either as step parents come along or friends and teachers influence them - and were pretty good if slightly insecure kids.

I have to say that we did say no to our kids regularly. And never gave our kids choices when they were very little. We were the adults and made all the decisions. Yes we even shouted at times when they got older. But we showered them with so much love and hugs and were always there for them every step of the way.

They are now both in their very late teens and a delight. Happy, confident and liked a lot by other adults and their peers. We are very close indeed and they say they have had a great childhood.

I have no regrets about using traditional parenting and honestly, as long as there is unconditional love and boundaries, I am not sure the specifics matter that much.

And here is a classic example of misunderstanding what gentle parenting is.

This is just just shit parenting masquerading as gentle parenting. But chocolate covered shit is still shit.

They absolutely have melt downs. Friend is still a teacher. Her school have had to introduce a special section on 'saying no and meaning it' into their evening for new parents. The behaviour of children coming into school in September was so appalling that the lunchtime supervisors refused to go out unless a teacher was also on duty.

I gentle parent, although I don't always get it right and sometimes end up louder than I'd like. I always apologise after for losing my cool.

The children who would benefit the most from gentle parenting are often the ones whose parents say things like 'you can only "gentle parent" children who are already gentle'.

I've worked (work) hard to make sure DS understands boundaries, accepts no, and isn't quick to anger and appreciates that there are consequences of actions. He's only young but i want him to mirror the communication he sees at home, where we talk, discuss and make compromises.

I wouldn't expect my boss to turn around and shout at me if I got something wrong. I don't expect, as an adult to be talked down to or ragged about. My children deserve the same courtesy.

I was gentle parented in the 70s due to my mum being very interested in attachment and no-smacking parenting theories, and it was different than 99% of my peers.

In general, I think it's a very good approach and much better than most, if done properly. Very close to my mum and talk to her all the time.

The negatives- I was scared of adult disapproval my whole life, my mum did that raise an eyebrow thing and it just terrified me, scared of teachers as well, even though nothing ever happened to me. Might have just been me! Also parents usually want their kids to do what they want, and so the raised eyebrow is just another way to achieve that. I have felt a bit dependent on my mum, even as an adult as the supportive/gentle approach continued into adulthood. I feel that less now.

One other thing, coping with the behaviour of many much more irrational, difficult, shouty, aggressive people has been hard, it's taken me a long time to toughen up and also see people who are more manipulative, that's been quite an important life skill I perhaps didn't get from a more nurturing approach, I assumed everyone was nice like my parents!

It's still a good approach, in the early years, I was probably a tiny bit harsher and more shouty with my own children, which I regret at times (as it was a function of my stress). It's better than constant overt control over children which is hard to survive.

What about the kid who has been clobbered? Do they receive an apology or anything? Do they get a say in whether they want to give the clobberer a final chance?

The reason people conflate gentle parenting with permissive parenting is because there are a LOT of people who say they are gentle parents when in fact they are just permissive. People aren’t all just willfully misunderstanding gentle parenting; there is a pattern of rubbish parents passing off their lassiez-faire approach as ‘gentle’ because that sounds good, when in fact they are just lazy and disengaged.

My brother and SIL are self-identified ’love and logic’ parents, but in reality they are just extremely permissive parents who can’t be bothered to step in when their children are acting completely inappropriately. We love our niece and nephews, but they are super demanding and destructive with no boundaries or understanding of why their wants should not always come first. SIL will watch calmly for hours as they scream and yell and completely rip apart someone’s house whilst ‘playing’ and then complain that people are ‘uptight’ and ‘judgmental’ of her ‘free spirited’ kids when they are never invited back. They have very few friends. Our kids hide in a bedroom to get away from their cousins after about 45 minutes together because the noise, selfishness, destructiveness, and overall lack of boundaries make them very difficult to be around.

My best friend is a gentle parent. She’s also a primary school teacher and she ‘gentle parents’ all her kids. Funnily enough, she never has these sorts of issues.

I question a lot of what I hear about schools these days, as the teachers I speak to, including my DH never have stories like this.

If you're talking about situation 2, no I don't force my child to apologise unless they feel that one is needed. If your child has bullied my child to the extent they have felt the need to lash out to make it stop then no they don't get an apology.

That's the not so gentle side of my parenting I'm afraid. I can't stand kids/people/anyone who verbally bullies and belittles to goad someone into a reaction. I'll happily explain to the parents why my child will not be apologising and say that it sounds like it was a mutual blame situation - one was verbally foul one was physically foul.

Oops that serves me right for reading quickly and not properly!

Unfortunately what I see isn't people calmly explaining why behaviour isn't acceptable, instead I see parents not bothering to check unacceptable behaviour (in public) not enforcing boundaries gently or otherwise. Children can't have autonomy until they learn the boundaries of acceptable behaviour

Surely the issue is most people have no fucking clue what gentle parenting is?

Building a child's self esteem will never harm them.

Teaching them that they matter will give them the resilience and confidence to succeed in healthy friendships and in the workplace.

I agree with PP that the actual victims are those who suffer the total opposite of gentle parenting.

Think about those people who you see on the street. Do you think any one of them will say 'it's just that my parents cared about how I felt TOO much. They just listened so much and made sure I felt so heard that I went right off the rails. I just wish they'd made me feel less important to them. I just have way too much confidence, esteem and resilience now'.

Gentle parenting isn't permissive parenting by the way.

Gentle parenting doesn't prepare children well for being educated/spending time socially in larger groups with less focussed adult direction. In particular it doesnt prepare them for the fact that:

• most adults and other children are not infinitely patient
• sometimes in life they will be made to do things that are hard that they do not want to do and no distraction, praise etc will be given, yet they will expected to do it anyway.
• they will often be expected to comply with adults instructions, quickly and without question, and will not be told why or given explanations, because there is not time or simply because the adult does not think the child needs to know
• not all of their needs are wants, and they will often have unmet wants, and most people around them will not go out of the way to fulfill their wants, even if they are reasonable/age appropriate.
• adults have emotions, and it is ok for them to show anger, frustration and disappointment in reasonable ways when a child's behaviour does not comply with societal expectations, and people often will.
• many consequences in life for bad behaviour will be strong/upsetting - loss of privileges, loss of possessions etc, and will not be limited to "natural" consequences.

The expressions:

'No'

'Do as you are told'

'Life isn't fair'

'Because I said so'

'Go to bed now'

When used judiciously (not all the time) produce the most well rounded kids in my experience.

In reality most children need a combination of parenting methods appropriate for situations, just explaining calmly is important but so is stopping the offending behaviour, what I see is permissive parenting or probably more accurately ignoring their children

Coloneldax
I wholeheartedly agree.

I use these. I regularly get comments on my children's excellent behaviour.

I wasn't envisaging a provocation situation. Are you saying no gently parented child is ever the unprovoked aggressor? In any event, aren't you condoning a disproportionate reaction if there is a verbal provocation - physical violence to deal with words, and no consequences for doing so? How do you think that will play out when your child is older?

I have seen explanations but unlike mine no its hot it will burn - no hitting is wrong it long winded convoluted explanations that adults around can't follow let along a young child - frequently immediately undermined as well.

There's also little stopping behaviour before hand with a sound to give them chance to rethink or with distraction - sometimes as it there some performative need of the parent to wait till afterwards so they can do long winded performance.

Most of what posters claim is gentle parenting does seem very basic common sense parenting to me so I'm surprised it needs labeling and drawing attention to.

I'm not condoning either action. If my child were the verbal aggressor they'd get as much as a telling off as if they were the physical aggressor. Words can often do more damage.

I suspect by teaching them to be kind will serve them well. Do you not think otherwise? If my child were the one walloped then I'd have little sympathy for them, they'd get a shrugged shoulder and a "well you shouldn't have wound them up then" in response.

I don’t agree with a lot of this, this isn’t quite what gentle parenting is? You talk about loss of possessions or privileges, but that’s part of gentle parenting? The natural consequences, for example, of not playing with something appropriately is not be able to play with it. So if my son hit me with a toy hammer for example, I would say to him that we don’t hit and if you can’t not hit then we can’t play with that toy. If he hits again, we no longer play with it.
You mention anger - I allow my children to express all emotions, they’re allowed to be angry, disappointed, cry etc. The whole pint of gentle parenting is to allow a range of emotions And not stop them. So for example if your child is having a tantrum because they’re angry or disappointed you don’t shout at them to stop, you help them experience and manage those emotions, you don’t just give in to them. Same with the needs and wants, if my child says ‘I want chocolate’ they don’t get it, that’s indulging and permissive parenting, not gentle? I tell my youngest to put his shoes on and I don’t always praise him every time he does. I think you don’t understand what gentle parenting is, it’s not permissive parenting.

but in reference to your first point, there is an idea that as you break the cycle less adults will be so impatient as you raise children to be able to cope better with their emotions.

One really important point that is often missed about gentle parenting is -

I would say that since I started gentle parenting, I have become a better person. I’m more understand of other people, their needs and their emotions. I’m also kinder on myself. It’s made me so much better at understand humans and why they behave the way they do. I’m much more empathetic.

Gentle parenting has made me a better adult.