Mother of Star Hobson does not deserve sympathy

[pumpkinspice87]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12385875/amp/Family-murdered-Star-Hobson-looking-forward-welcoming-home-mother-allowed-toddler-die-hands-girlfriend-say-victim-tragedy.html

Am I being unreasonable to be absolutely sickened by this article? I get that this man is traumatised by what happened to his family, but how could anyone be so blinded as to see Star's mother as some sort of innocent victim? She was a cruel and neglectful mother who was too infatuated with her new partner to protect her baby daughter. Yes, I know she has a low IQ and learning difficulties. However, to use this as a constant excuse is an absolute insult to the many, many people in this country with learning difficulties (many of whom are parents) who would never, ever think it is acceptable to stand by and watch whilst their child is horrifically abused.

In answer to your thread title @pumpkinspice87; no, she doesn’t deserve my sympathy but if her grandfather has some then it’s no one else’s place to judge that. I didn’t get the impression he was particularly calling on anyone else to feel as he does?

I’m in the fortunate position that I haven’t got anyone I love who has committed atrocious acts. It’s very easy to say that hypothetically you’d do this or that or feel a particular way but you don’t know until you’re in the middle of it.

It’s all very complex and tied up in knowing who else that person is capable of being and factors that make them a real person. I don’t envy that position.

I'm not sure it is ill-judged to do the interview. I think lots of people (possibly even the OP) want to think that murderers or accessories to murder are monsters and everyone around them can see it. But that isn't the case. They can come from loving families. They can be viewed as vulnerable by their older family members.
None of that excuses what they did. But he isn't trying to excuse it.
There's absolutely no point having a justice system if we don't believe it works. Our entire system is based on a balance of punishment and rehabilitation. And, of course, it's all horrendous for the family.
It's patronising and emotionally vampiric to imply you (a complete stranger) are somehow upset or offended by how a family member - who actually lost the murdered child - is trying to process and respond. It's also legally naïve. The probation service, offenders institutions, sometimes even the courts, put enormous pressure on families to help reintegrate offenders and to help unofficially monitor them.

The pill has to be taken everyday regularly. I doubt a person with severe learning difficulties could manage that. I doubt she would keep a hormone patch onwithin a couple days of meeting a scumbag guy who asks her to have his baby in order to keep her under his control.

So...are people therefore suggesting a woman be forcibly fitted with an IUD or forcibly be operated on to tie her fallopian tubes or remove her womb, despite possible side effects/complications?

Having a low IQ doesn't override bodily autonomy does it?

And it would be a step on a very slippery slope. A PP mentioned ADHD. Some people have it mildly, some severely. It would certainly open up the conversation of what renders a person 'mentally unfit to conceive' and I have no trust such power wouldn't be abused.

I also notice no one is suggesting the man who made a girl with an IQ of a mere 70 pregnant should be sterilised.

It would be a deterrent to others that's what. As well as sending out a message we don't tolerate adults killing children.

We are seeing more and more of this type of behaviour and sentences are so low.

I doubt you would say this if it was your own child.

These people are lucky they aren't hanged. Seeing whole life sentences is the next best thing.

They can both be disgusting. I have written multiple comments about my feelings on Star’s mother and her partner, you don’t need to try and out words in my mouth.

Sterilisation is a dangerous road to go down.

I remember reading that Stars grandad committed suicide. It's not a position I'd ever want to be in and couldn't say how I'd react so it's easy for me to say I wouldn't forgive my child allowing such horrendous abuse of an innocent baby.
There were so many stories just like this after lockdown. What the hell is wrong with these people it's horrendous to even think about.

What are you saying here? Sterilising a child murderer is one thing, sterilising someone because they are intellectually disabled is not an acceptable suggestion.

This thread is getting fucking dodgy.

70 is a really low IQ. I mean it's in what used to be called mental retardation territory, not learning difficulty. I am very surprised that she wasn't flagged up to SS at the birth as surely this would have been evident at the birth. She should have had a lot more support from the begining or even had the baby removed and then perhaps she would never have been able to meet and move in with someone that was dangerous to her baby. Is it know why her IQ is so low?

You know America has the death penalty. Makes no difference because at the time such crimes are committed there are a set of circumstances that interact with personality factors that mean people only think about the consequences after the fact.

It is

Benefits and money no doubt.

Why did she even get pregnant in the first place? She was very young and not even in a stable relationship, then went with a woman who was vile.
What a mess, can't people behave in a nice manner and take control of their lives.
If people didn't keep shagging around and having baby's willy nilly none of this would happen.

It all comes down to sex at the end of the day and moving around partners all the time. All gone downhill.
A woman shouldn't be allowed to let a new partner move in quickly either that they hardly know.

Nobody is looking out for the child ever.
Can't see anything changing sadly.

If she was jealous of Star why have a relationship with someone witha child.

As a woman she is hardly likely to father a child either. Just date women without kids.

I'm fairly local to this as well.
The popular opinion on Mark Feely is that because of his alleged learning disabilities he gets away with being a nonce. There was a rumour a year or 2 back that someone had killed him . Unfortunately it was untrue, although he seems to have gone to ground. Not heard of him for a while

I wonder why they chose to turn a blind eye to it five times. In fact no, I can guess..

If it stops another baby suffering the same fate then it’s well worth the cost.

I remember that too.

It was the day after it came out in court that Frankie used to wake Star up by screaming "WAKE UP" in her face. Frankie thought that this was an OK thing to do and pointed out in court that it was what her father used to do to her.

The following day he killed himself.

This is besides the point but just look how ‘regular’ Savannah Brockhill looks. Isn’t it scary to know that these types of people literally walk beside us day to day.

I mean punching a child over and over for 3 hours? What sort of insane, evil, unhinged person would do something like that? Choke slamming a child? I have absolutely no words

Family and friends contacted social services on several occasions from January 2020 and up until the month Star diedd_.
Alicia (half sister of Frankie Smith) says she contacted social services three months before the murder, as well as the police, after growing increasingly concerned for Star's welfare.
Alicia has shown Sky News an email she sent to the police, with images of Star's bruised face and testimony in text messages from another sister that she had seen Smith "slap her across the face".

According to Alicia, police never responded and her exchanges with social services were equally unsuccessful.

This is a transcript of the Snapchat conversation sent to police
SISTER: "I've just seen Frankie slap her across the face. X"
ALICIA: "OMG"
SISTER "I'm fuming x"

ALICIA: "Tell nana x"
SISTER: "K x"
ALICIA: "Something bad is going to happen. Why did she hit her?"
SISTER: "Coz she was playing with her shoe."
Around this time, police and social services took the child to hospital to be checked up, but accepted her injuries were accidental.
This was already the second time police had seen Star with bruising. Family and friends made a total of five referralss_, but Alicia now says she wishes she had taken things into her own hands.

"I was just angry, every day, because no one was listening to me," she said.
"I felt like all I could have done was taken her and run off with her."
Alicia gave evidence against her sister in court.
Although they were once best friends, she said: "I just can't ever speak to her again.
"I was literally screaming at Frankie, 'You don't have to be with that girl, we can call the police, we can get a restraining order.'
"I don't know if she didn't believe me, or she didn't want to."

I just feel angry because I think if that was me, if that was my child, I would have got away. I would have got out of that situation, no matter what.
"So, I can't forgive that."
One of the complaints to social services was dismissed as malicious despite bruises being found on tiny Star.
In January 2020, a friend of Smith raised concerns about Star to social services. The case was closed a month later.

In April 2020, Smith took Star back. Just a month later, Anita contacted social services who paid Smith a visit the same day.
Anita had contacted social services in May after she had been told that Brockhill had been 'slam-choking' Star - lifting by her neck and thrown on the bed - in order to 'toughen her up'.
Anita said that, after making the referral, she was not contacted by anyone from social services and was not told when the social services inquiry had been closed.
After she had made the referral, Anita said she David had their access to Star restricted and were only able to see her a couple more times before she died.

During the trial, disturbing details of the toddler's short life emerged, including a clip captured on CCTV of Brockhill repeatedly punching Star in the face and stomach over a three-hour period, nine days before the murder.
The toddler was also filmed being dragged through Bradford city centree_ by Smith and crawling painfully up the communal staircase to her mother's flat.

I have also read that Alicia was banned from seeing her niece by Frankie Smith.

Between February and April, Star was living with great grandparents Anita Smith and David Fawcett where she was content and happy.

And it would be a step on a very slippery slope. A PP mentioned ADHD.

Unless pp is also responsible for the death of a child, she has nothing to worry about. Long term contraception or sterilisation as a condition for release sound completely sensible.

I wonder why they chose to turn a blind eye to it five times. In fact no, I can guess..

The article says they seemed to decide that the family was prejudiced against same sex couples and against gypsies - and that seems to have led them to dismiss all the raised concerns.

Not sure what police did maybe they referred to SS don't know.

A damning insight into the social services regarding this family -

Alicia the half sister to Frankie Smith -

. "There were five different people from Star's family or close friends who reported it… that seems like a big failure.

They just thought that all of Frankie's family were being malicious, and they'd just decided they'd taken their side. That's what it felt like, it felt like the social services were against us.
"I think they need to be more on the ball, and time is crucial. Frankie was texting her social worker saying 'we've got a sickness bug, can we rearrange'.
"And she was just replying, 'no worries' - whereas they should be like, 'no, you can't rearrange - this needs to be followed up, I need to see you today.'"
......
For someone with a low IQ, Frankie Smith was very devious.

The more I read, the more I feel that Frankie did a lot more than she is being punished for.

You are not being unreasonable. Her learning difficulties were not severe enough that she did not know allowing someone to physically assault her child, repeatedly over a period of months was absolutely wrong. Not only did she not stop that person, she never removed her child from the situation and continued an emotional and sexual relationship with the person. She is not the victim here.

However, the great grandfather does not sound like he has a high IQ to me either- and is likely to have been taken advantage of by the DM. He does actually say no one else in the family feels the way he does about her - the headline, as ever in the DM, is misleading.

This article is typical DM gutter journalism- taking an horrific, tragic situation, where the criminal is a traveller and a lesbian (two ticks on their list of easy-to -rile up- readers-with-this-one, double hatred from DM readers), the victim a child (another tick on their list), a vulnerable mother involved in the crime (another tick on their list). They contact a vulnerable family member, offer sympathy, pay him for the story (no doubt promising a compassionate piece) and hang him out to dry by writing the piece they intended to from the start. The DM has no interest in really exploring the issues here- its only interest is in whipping up hatred of particular groups (single parents, lesbians, travellers, the underclass) and implying neglect by social services.

The DM has an interest in maintaining the audience of readers it has (the lower middle-classes/upper working classes). These are the people whose votes win elections for either of the big parties. The DM is full of direct and more subtle political messages. This article is no different. There are all kinds of 'political messages' throughout it, intended to sway readers views about issues such as:

1. Justice- sentences are too low.
2. Public services- social services always to blame, never do a decent job.
3. Wokeism- DM is anti-anyone who falls into any group other than 'middle-aged/elderly, white, straight, middle-class+ British male'. They consider anyone else a drain on public resources, disgusting, dangerous and must not be given any status in our society incase they change the power balance away from those the DM supports.
4. The reality of how the 'underclass' live and how different they are to DM readers. (Always best to maintain the illusion these people have nothing in common with DM readers and must be kept in their place, far away from 'us').

DM has no compassion. Never be fooled by it. It's only interest is in maintaining capitalism as the main political power driving this country- it's reason for existing is to make the already very rich, much richer at the expense of the rest of us.

Have you ever worked with intellectually disabled people? I can think of a very small number of those people that would make adequate parents with an incredible amount of support.
For most, it would be a disaster, an absolute disaster- for them and their children. That was the case for a number of women I supported. Unfortunately they had children before they were diagnosed with a disability.
I can only think of one woman who brought her NT child up OK and was with the help of her family.

I have sympathy in the sense that I understand she was a victim as well as an abuser.

In the sense that she and her daughter were utterly failed by services again and again.

In the sense that I understand how easy it is to manipulate and control someone who is extremely vulnerable.

In the sense that, dismissing her as a monster and lock her up and throw away the key, does not prevent this to happening again and again.