To think it's embarrassing how English has one of the easiest grammar systems, and yet so many people don't know the basic rules...

[Skyeboat]

I'm a linguist, and the languages I studied have very complex grammar rules compared to English. So much so that native speakers have to memorise verb tables, moods, cases etc. at primary school level, and even those who didn't study to a high level know the basic rules.
English is one of the simplest languages, and yet the amount of native English speakers I see making really obvious mistakes is just embarrassing.
Is the problem that we just don't teach grammar and syntax in school?
For example, I saw a FB post today selling "Teddy's" (as opposed to teddies). That's actually the most common mistake I see - people, even businesses, not knowing how to use apostrophes and form plurals. I'd understand if it was a complicated rule that required memorisation with a lot of exceptions, but it's soo basic. It takes about 10 minutes to learn then you're all set.
I went to a pretty average state school, and I remember they did teach us these things, but we weren't rigorously tested on them or required to repeat them regularly. So I do believe the problem is with a lack of focus on basic English from a young age.
Am I being unreasonable or is this really embarrassing that we have such a poor grasp of our own mother tongue?

I agree. I used to teach at university level and I'm not a native speaker but I spent much of my time marking reports trying to get students to understand basic rules of English grammar, e.g., in order to be a full sentence, there should probably be a verb somewhere, or the difference between genitive "'s" and plural "s". I was shocked by the low level of understanding of basic grammar

@SerafinasGoose I think it must have been my post you’re referring to. To clarify, I do totally understand that many people have genuine problems with maths (I’m a teacher and I see a lot of it!) and what you describe does sound like dyscalculia. I’m talking much less about not being good at a subject and more about not caring that you’re no good at a subject - it’s more that some regard the arts and humanities as being somehow more exalted and intellectual than the sciences (someone once told me that you can do well in any science subject just by working hard without being particularly clever, whereas to be good at the humanities took real genius). I think many of those who acknowledge that STEM subjects are objectively more “useful” still think that the arts are inherently better somehow - I have a family member who has what she calls a “healthy disrespect” for science.

What we really need, of course, is more people who are good at both: we need scientists who can communicate effectively and empathically, and we need people working in the media who have a better understanding of science.

I thin you must occupy a very particular corner of the world @ZebraDanios because your observations are a million miles away from the current reality of humanities subjects being in absolute crisis. Numbers are down in university admissions and universities are cutting or even closing whole humanities departments. Why you describe sounds like a certain kind of early 20th C snobbery that the arts are for gentleman and STEM is for the trades.

I don't think the fact that English is widely spoken is itself evidence of it being easy. After all, Latin and Greek used to be the global languages of their day, and few would describe them as easy.

I agree that most English speakers are tolerant of mistakes and idiosyncrasies, and this definitely makes it less intimidating to learn and speak. I guess these days English is so international that nobody really 'owns' it anymore. There are so many varieties of English, and it is spoken to widely varying degrees of 'correctness' by people all over the world. Plus, as I said above, no matter where you live in the world, you'll likely have at least some exposure to English as a child, even if only in brand names and advertisements. All of that makes English seem familiar, even to those who barely speak it.

My opinion is that English is easy to speak (or write) badly but difficult to use well. There is also the fact that people are exposed to English through film, pop music and advertising in a way that doesn't really happen with other languages

Certain parts of speech seem to be disappearing, such as past participles, including adjectival ones ("I've ate a mix grill"), and adverbs ("he speaks fantastic!").

The older I get the less I care. I'm awful at maths and my memory is awful. Who am I to judge other people. It is the education system not teaching well.

A self declared linguist who makes mistakes, punching down on others who make mistakes? Pot, kettle?

Clear communication is the priority and I try not to judge others for mistakes. I’m less bothered about correct placement of punctuation unless it changes the meaning of the sentence. I’m more concerned about diminishing the richness of our vocabulary, since fewer people read books regularly. Losing nuance and making it harder for us to describe what we think and feel.

I don’t recall how well grammar as such was taught at dds’ primary, but I was perversely chuffed when after some school tests, dd2 at maybe 10 told me, ‘English was OK, Mum, but I did really craply at maths.’ 😂

That’s a really good point.

My French is very limited but even I can think of lots of French loanwords in English which have changed their meanings either fully or partially? Canapé, robe, sac, court, blouse, sensible, etc?

Of course the other thing to note here is that 3 out of 4 are UK English and MW is US English.

UK English does use en suite to mean bathroom attached to bedroom.

The reality is I spent hours with my lovely, patient grandfather trying to master even simple issues like long division. I'd crack it during that one session. Then, the next time I faced an exercise, my mind would go blank and expunge everything I thought I'd learned. This happened every time.

I clearly remember a primary teacher barking at me for about 20 minutes without let-up, wasting half the maths lesson: 'TWENTY-ONE TAKE AWAY TWO!' - whilst the rest of the kids stared at me nonplussed. By the end of the 20 minutes I was a blubbering, gibbering wreck. The teacher thought I was either being deliberately stubborn or was terminally stupid. The reality is my mind had gone completely blank, and I'd panicked to the extent that I couldn't cope with even so simple a calculation as that.

I saw similar with DD1 and place value - she clearly hadn't got it - but memorized up to 20 take away and adds - you could literally see the light bulb moment with her. She struggled so much with basics that more was too difficult to remember on top.

We found on-line course for maths - mathsfactor - helped get passed reluctance and built in defensiveness and gave my DC the huge amount of practise they desperately needed - as soon as thing got so practised as to be automated they ceased struggling with mental arithmetic and could focus on the maths.

I had similar lightbulb moment with phonics- teaching my DC - and it explained many things to me words weren't just a list of odd letters - clearly I worked out some of the code but I was still struggled with pronouncing words I'd just read and telling me to sound out spelling had never been helpful - though I also struggle to hear sound in words anyway - but I'd missed some digraphs especially ones often in middle of words.

With DS it was hard he had built in reluctance having struggled with maths and reading at school- but he's just done GCSE and is expect to do well - but I think our school system is poor once kids do fall behind they have to have some external support to catch up and fulfil their potential.

Schools do more than they once did - and they have a lot to cover - but yes I think regularly correcting work to re-enforce the correct way would be more helpful with spelling and grammar.

I can remember at infant school reading out loud and sounding everything out in the approved fashion (c-a-t-cat) and the teacher saying in an irritated voice "if you can read the word, just read it!". It had never occurred to me that the c-a-t nonsense was meant to be helpful, I thought it was just another of those bizarre pointless things that adults insist on. People learn in different ways. For short and common words, I definitely went by whole word recognition (thank-you Ladybird Puppies and Kittens).

Yes I learnt by whole word recognition as well.