To think it's embarrassing how English has one of the easiest grammar systems, and yet so many people don't know the basic rules...

[Skyeboat]

I'm a linguist, and the languages I studied have very complex grammar rules compared to English. So much so that native speakers have to memorise verb tables, moods, cases etc. at primary school level, and even those who didn't study to a high level know the basic rules.
English is one of the simplest languages, and yet the amount of native English speakers I see making really obvious mistakes is just embarrassing.
Is the problem that we just don't teach grammar and syntax in school?
For example, I saw a FB post today selling "Teddy's" (as opposed to teddies). That's actually the most common mistake I see - people, even businesses, not knowing how to use apostrophes and form plurals. I'd understand if it was a complicated rule that required memorisation with a lot of exceptions, but it's soo basic. It takes about 10 minutes to learn then you're all set.
I went to a pretty average state school, and I remember they did teach us these things, but we weren't rigorously tested on them or required to repeat them regularly. So I do believe the problem is with a lack of focus on basic English from a young age.
Am I being unreasonable or is this really embarrassing that we have such a poor grasp of our own mother tongue?

We clearly used to pronounce it the same as the Americans because it often appears in written texts as an herb. Likewise writing an hotel and an historian, even though in spoken language both Brits and Americans would typically say a hotel, a historian. I always say a historian but always write an historian.

For some odd reason many people seem to celebrate being really bad at English. I don’t understand it.

This is probably not a set in stone way of understanding it but it helps me for the most part. Affect is emotional and effect is practical. She was affected by his behaviour. The effect of the paintwork made the room look bigger.

Or something like that 😁 I’m sure there’s a much more in depth explanation.

Conjugation of verbs. In English, apart from a few irregular verbs that are not too difficult to learn, everything is very straight forward: I sit, you sit, he/she sits, we sit, you sit, they sit. In Latin languages conjugation of verbs is a nightmare, take a look at French. We replace conjugation by a plethora of auxiliary verb forms - I will sit, I was sitting, I used to sit, I would have been sitting, I will be sitting, were I to sit for example. Maybe that's simpler than changing the endings, but I'm not sure it's "straightforward"

@willWillSmithsmith I’m glad you’ve found something that helps you to remember but that’s a really confusing explanation.

Affect is a verb and effect is a noun. An effect can be emotional (his behaviour had an effect on her) and affect can be practical (the paint colour affects the feel of the room).

A good test is to check if you can put the definite article (the) or indefinite article (an) in front. If you can and it still makes sense then it is effect, the noun.

😂 I’m crap at grammar but I love it when the OP gets caught out. Thank you.

I hear what you’re saying but for me the use of affect in your example is an emotion. It’s confusing because it also very much depends where in the sentence you place the words. The effect of the paint vs the paint colour affects the feel.

I agree though it is or can be a very confusing use of very similar words. I find the same with spoiled and spoilt and past and passed and I’m sure there are others. Thankfully I think most people don’t really know either so I don’t worry if I’m using the wrong word. 😁

That works except when it’s effect the verb… as in to effect change.

Effect as a verb is unspeakably ugly corporate English and I avoid it at all costs!

I have read this twice and honestly don’t have a clue what you mean. As long as it works for you.

😂😂

@ThanksItHasPockets , I’ve often seen ‘effect’ as a verb - used correctly - in non-corporate-blather language.

Perfectly normal use IMO - I don’t see how it’s ‘ugly’.

That’s super. I have no idea why you would think my personal and subjective preference should have any effect (noun) on your language choices!

Most languages have a plethora of auxiliary verb forms, it's not specific to English.

Overall English is a much easier language to learn if you have some grammar knowledge.

I remember when I came to England back in 2004 I met a woman in her 40ies who was learning French at the time. She was a qualified accountant and went to grammar school and she said to me at the time that only when you start learning a foreign language you learn about 'nouns', 'verbs' , 'adjectives', 'conjugation' and so on 😶. She's well in her 60ies now, so maybe grammar wasn't a focus in schools in her time?!

In addition, there are other English words with French etymology where we don't pronounce an initial "h" on either side of the pond: honor/honour, hour, heir, honest.

Bet you’re fun at parTIES

I've not come across this, but I did see a post upthread claiming some people like to revel in their own mathematical stupidity.

I'm one of those (many) British people whose maths are simply awful. I've never been diagnosed with any specific learning disability, but I suspect I might be an excellent candidate for discalulia. My teachers worked extremely hard with me, and my school reports constantly stated that either I wasn't interested so wouldn't concentrate, or that I had no confidence in my ability to 'do' maths, therefore couldn't do it because I was telling myself I couldn't.

The reality is I spent hours with my lovely, patient grandfather trying to master even simple issues like long division. I'd crack it during that one session. Then, the next time I faced an exercise, my mind would go blank and expunge everything I thought I'd learned. This happened every time.

I clearly remember a primary teacher barking at me for about 20 minutes without let-up, wasting half the maths lesson: 'TWENTY-ONE TAKE AWAY TWO!' - whilst the rest of the kids stared at me nonplussed. By the end of the 20 minutes I was a blubbering, gibbering wreck. The teacher thought I was either being deliberately stubborn or was terminally stupid. The reality is my mind had gone completely blank, and I'd panicked to the extent that I couldn't cope with even so simple a calculation as that.

For context, I have a PhD in English literature and am no intellectual slouch. But when it comes to maths, I am stupid. I doubt I could manage a GCSE qualification, much less tackle the subject at degree level or beyond. But far from revelling in this as cool, I'm really ashamed of it. If only I'd had a scientifically capable mind and could have studied medicine or the physical sciences my career would be in so much better a place by now. The Humanities, I'm sad to say, are dying in the water.

@Takoneko what does sake mean in Japan Vs UK?

It's some sort of wine made out of rice.

In the UK it’s Japanese rice wine. In Japanese it just means alcohol. They call
the stuff that we call sake nihonshu.

Sake in Japan can be beer, vodka, whisky, wine etc.

Thanks

I haven't RTFT so have no idea if this aspect has been touched on - but understanding the basic rules of the English language can be very useful when it comes to spotting fake e-mails and online scams. Spelling, punctuation and grammar errors are a hallmark of such communications, yet the fact that so many of them manage to hit their target would seem to support what the OP is saying. And the argument that "getting it right doesn't matter as long as the message gets across...." would also seem to be borne out by the number of people getting taken in by such scams, wouldn't it? 🙄

Interesting take. I'm a linguist & thought it was well known that English is a difficult language to learn.

I agree with you, it's not about using absolutely perfect English but even the BBC etc increasingly make quite basic mistakes. Badly written / spoken English can make the message being communicated unclear so it's not a case of just being pedantic. In the 90s I remember teachers stopped correcting grammar and spelling as long as they understood what was being said. As a teacher myself now (not of English as a subject) we are encouraged to do the same. Problem is I can barely read some essays - the writing has become so bad it's genuinely unclear what people are trying to say. Pupils barely read anything that isn't on social media so that's not helping.