To think it's embarrassing how English has one of the easiest grammar systems, and yet so many people don't know the basic rules...

[Skyeboat]

I'm a linguist, and the languages I studied have very complex grammar rules compared to English. So much so that native speakers have to memorise verb tables, moods, cases etc. at primary school level, and even those who didn't study to a high level know the basic rules.
English is one of the simplest languages, and yet the amount of native English speakers I see making really obvious mistakes is just embarrassing.
Is the problem that we just don't teach grammar and syntax in school?
For example, I saw a FB post today selling "Teddy's" (as opposed to teddies). That's actually the most common mistake I see - people, even businesses, not knowing how to use apostrophes and form plurals. I'd understand if it was a complicated rule that required memorisation with a lot of exceptions, but it's soo basic. It takes about 10 minutes to learn then you're all set.
I went to a pretty average state school, and I remember they did teach us these things, but we weren't rigorously tested on them or required to repeat them regularly. So I do believe the problem is with a lack of focus on basic English from a young age.
Am I being unreasonable or is this really embarrassing that we have such a poor grasp of our own mother tongue?

i suppose what I’m asking is what makes you think English people think it’s the French word for bathroom? I’ve never heard an English person use it to describe any bathroom that isn’t an en suite one and I regularly hear them use it to describe bedrooms e.g. “the master bedroom is an en suite”. What have people said to make you think they think it is the French word for bathroom?

I meant a bathroom-attached-to-a-bedroom not any old bathroom. I have encountered plenty of people who think that’s what en suite means - estate agents for example.

I’m not sure it would cause confusion, it’s just not strictly correct that’s all. En suite in French means many things with no relation to bathrooms or bedrooms.

But it is strictly correct that in English an en suite is a bathroom attached to a bedroom. That's my point.

It’s strictly correct in English that “bedroom with en suite bathroom” means a bedroom with attached bathroom.

An “en suite” has come to mean a bathroom attached to a bedroom partly from shorthand and partly from ignorance as to what the French actually means. Commonly used is not the same as correct.

I never say it personally as it’s cringe.

Yep. I agree with Jennifer again. In English en suite means a bedroom and bathroom attached to one another. We never use en suite for any other rooms connected to one another.

It doesn’t matter what the term means in French, it has a different meaning in English. Just like entrée in American English doesn’t mean the same thing that it does in French or how sake doesn’t mean the same thing here that it does in Japan.

When the English steal a word or expression from another language, they do it properly and without shame - it becomes an English word or expression. Many English people will be saying “en suite” without once considering that they might be using words that are also French. Few people ever consider that mutton and beef are derived from “mouton,” and “boeuf,” either. The French are far more purist about their language than the English are about theirs.

That’s fine, it would be boring if we all agreed. I disagree with both of you. That’s not what it means, that’s how it’s commonly used.

It matters to me what it means in French. I don’t expect anyone to speak Japanese, but French is studied at school, just across the channel, and not that hard to figure out. The US is a law unto itself wrt language mangling - “I will be with you momentarily.”

Having taught little ones to read and write I can confirm that English is a complex language to learn as a native speaker and for people learning English.

The government have basically ripped apart the system that worked to teach people - there, their and they’re! You have to cram so much in that time runs out and the children haven’t mastered the spelling rules.

Other languages have words for each different meaning of the word - right. We have one word meaning many different things and then we chuck in - write - as a homophone 😂

why not train to become a teacher and then you can ensure the next generation of grammar police do it properly.

@Mirabai - it’s not language mangling, it’s the expansion of English vocabulary. Nobody cringes because the English word “beef” originated from the French word “boeuf,” for example, or that one meant the animal and the other was used for the meat. It’s no coincidence so many English words are similar to French words. It’s not as if the Normans didn’t invade and take over or anything. To cringe is ridiculous.

The French are far more protective of their language - that perfectly true. But they also have fewer English words. Around 60% of English is derived from French and Latin (assuming 30% each, French being derived from Latin. Altho estimates of derivation from French vary between 30-45%.) I’d say more recent and wholesale imports are more obvious.

The US is a law unto itself wrt language mangling - “I will be with you momentarily.”

At least we don't say "I was sat . . ."

Very true. I find momentarily charming.

It’s quite amusing to see the French purists squirming at the adoption of English words directly into French (eg le selfie, le scoop, le shampooing), while the English happily mangle French words without even realising it or caring.

Hasn't American English evolved more slowly than British English? I could swear I've read that on here in one of the many discussions about "gotten".

You call it expansion I call it mangling. 😄

“Erbs” as Americans call herbs in the mistaken belief that the pronuciation is somehow European - except in French it’s pronounced airb, in Italian airbay and in Spanish eeairbas.

Vive la différence 😉🤣

In English en suite means a bedroom and bathroom attached to one another. We never use en suite for any other rooms connected to one another.

For British English, yes. "En suite" is not as common in the US, and when used can sometimes mean a different room. When we bought our house, it was advertised as having a master bedroom with an "en suite sitting room." "Private bathroom" or "master bathroom" is often used for what British folks would call an "en suite."

American English does retain some older forms that have fallen out of use or considered substandard in British English. "Gotten" is one (although I think it's been used in Scotland for a long time), and another is "fall" for autumn.

But then French phrases sound sophisticated in English - pretentious, moi? Whereas in French English/American phrases can sound a bit crass. Or funny as in “tu fumes du shit?”.

Interesting.

Although en suite is used like that here too - you could have an en suite study or dressing room for example or en suite rooms just meaning they follow on from one another. That’s partly why I disagree with the other posters.

I never heard en suite until the house hunting shows starting using it constantly in the past 7-8 years. I’ve still never heard a real person use it. They stopped using the term “master” in real estate listings. It was decided by some that it was a term related to slavery, I think?

“Erbs” as Americans call herbs in the mistaken belief that the pronuciation is somehow European - except in French it’s pronounced airb, in Italian airbay and in Spanish eeairbas.

It's not as though we all sat around deciding to use a French influenced pronunciation through a "a mistaken belief." It evolved as these things do. I have read that one reason British English anglicizes the pronunciation of many French words (valet, filet/fillet) is historic dislike (as in wars with) France. While for us Americans, France was our ally in that whole 1776 business.

They stopped using the term “master” in real estate listings. It was decided by some that it was a term related to slavery, I think?

True, especially here in the South. Now the most common terms are "owner's bedroom" or "main bedroom."

‘Principal bedroom’ seems to be preferred.

"Primary" bedroom is also in common use, which makes sense because the others have usually been called secondary bedrooms.

If we’re policing adopted words between French and English then I would like to speak to a representative of la Francophonie about ‘le brushing’ and ‘le relooking’, svp.