To think it's embarrassing how English has one of the easiest grammar systems, and yet so many people don't know the basic rules...

[Skyeboat]

I'm a linguist, and the languages I studied have very complex grammar rules compared to English. So much so that native speakers have to memorise verb tables, moods, cases etc. at primary school level, and even those who didn't study to a high level know the basic rules.
English is one of the simplest languages, and yet the amount of native English speakers I see making really obvious mistakes is just embarrassing.
Is the problem that we just don't teach grammar and syntax in school?
For example, I saw a FB post today selling "Teddy's" (as opposed to teddies). That's actually the most common mistake I see - people, even businesses, not knowing how to use apostrophes and form plurals. I'd understand if it was a complicated rule that required memorisation with a lot of exceptions, but it's soo basic. It takes about 10 minutes to learn then you're all set.
I went to a pretty average state school, and I remember they did teach us these things, but we weren't rigorously tested on them or required to repeat them regularly. So I do believe the problem is with a lack of focus on basic English from a young age.
Am I being unreasonable or is this really embarrassing that we have such a poor grasp of our own mother tongue?

People are good at different things and when you're skilled at something it can be mystifying that others struggle with that very thing. I am fairly articulate and possess a decent grasp of spelling, punctuation and grammar. My sense of direction however is terrible and I can't find my way out of a paper bag. I'm sure you have flaws too OP and struggle with things other people find very simple.

Me neither. It is however considered essential in English GCSE

I also have a bad sense of direction, but no one is going around saying "having a bad sense of direction is good and we should do absolutely nothing to improve people's sense of direction".

Thank you for your response. I'm sorry I misread your intentions.

I am not one of these people who gets a sense of satisfaction from correcting grammar. I would never ever point out to someone their grammatical error in the middle of an argument to make myself look good . (FYI, to everyone who is telling me not to put a comma before "and", you can put a comma before "and" if it is splitting up two independent clauses).

My point is more that some of these issues are extremely basic and easy to remedy, and this sort of intervention can easily be introduced in primary school. Teaching children to be articulate and express themselves confidently and correctly is a good thing, and lots of these rules take just a few minutes to learn and a bit of repetition.

I agree that standards of English in this country are rather low and have declined in recent years. While it doesn't really matter so much on social media, it really should matter in journalism, books, and business. Clearly the proofreaders and editors themselves have such poor standards that they are unable to notice and correct the errors of others.

It's essential for my year 4s!

Well, according to the national curriculum but don't get me started on that...

@LylaLee yes, that's what I meant. Dialects have internally consistent rules which may differ from standard English.

@Moonberri that is true. "We was" would probably be considered incorrect in an English test. As @LylaLee points out, those in power decide.

I've been living abroad for a long time and English is almost my second language these days, so I'm no expert, but one thing I have noticed is the way some people describe a past event, a family member has started to do it all the time. I'm not a linguist or a grammar expect however I'm quite sure we use the past simple to talk about an event that happened in finished time. An example recently was someone talking about something that happened last week " So I'm walking along the street and I've seen the woman in the car so I've given her the key " I will hold my hands up if I'm wrong but if this was a past event in finished time shouldn't it have been 'I was walking along the street and I saw the woman in the car and I gave her the key' ?
Also, I keep seeing 'We was' and 'I seen'. Maybe I'm massively out of touch. Not a criticism. just curious.

Nope. Russian has three tenses, all simple.

@Losttheplotsometimeago it may have simple tenses but grammatically it is still pretty tricky. Cases, verbs of motion etc are not known for being easy.

@twilighteaser

I think 'I seen' comes from people hearing, "I've seen" but never seeing it written down.

I'm in my 50s and I have no idea what a phrasal verb is. I was never taught grammar at school. I think my grammar is ok though.

If only it were around the nuances of tenses. It’s not. It’s apostrophe use and knowledge of plurals - that’s to do with lax education and people not being bothered to know the absolute basics. In other countries, there would be conclusions drawn for people not being able to write a basic plural without fucking up. Every Russian child knows how 1, 2, 3 and more work, and it’s much more complex than an apostrophe or not.

I’m marching towards 56 and none of this is alien. I went to a shitty comp, and I’m not a doctor, scientist or lawyer. These mistakes are not dyslexic, they’re not knowing/being bothered.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say. Thank you. It's not about the finer details, but the absolute basics, the equivalents are just taught as standard in other countries.

Except perfective and imperfective and verbs of motion. And let’s just ignore cases. So yeah. Simples. (Simple’s today, for the first time, now, or generally, or always?!)

Tell me what нормально means in conversation.

English is far, far more difficult to learn than Mandarin or Japanese because the grammar is so complex. Everyone speaks just enough English to be understood but barely anyone is fluent.

I'm also suspicious of educated, middle class people who for some reason don't want poor children to be taught basic correct English.
This is extremely basic, easy-to-teach stuff that can change people's life outcomes. Why don't you want to share?

@Wenfy sorry but that is just completely untrue. The writing systems for Chinese and Japanese alone require a far higher investment for the non-native learner, at least those with a western European language background. To get to C1 (lower advanced) level in Chinese or Japanese, for an Engliah speaker, requires several hundred more hours of study than achieving the same level in German or Dutch for example.

You misunderstand . Russian tenses (of which there are only three, rather than the twelve in English) are grammatically simple, i.e. they don't have continuous / progressive forms.

Verbal aspect and verbs of motion certainly takes years and years of practice, but the tense system itself is easy. And I think the case system is straightforward and quite easy to master- but then I studied Latin and German first.

(That is not a difficult question btw for someone who teaches English to Russians. "How are you?" "I am normal.")

Isn’t that the “present historic” or something? Use the present tense to describe past events to give a greater sense of immediacy?

(FYI, to everyone who is telling me not to put a comma before "and", you can put a comma before "and" if it is splitting up two independent clauses).

Some people are far too trigger happy with the commas. (Including you at times IMO). It grates on me. I sometimes think more comma related restraint helps text flow better, unless they’re absolutely necessary for clarity. (I’ve never understood why introductory adverbs supposedly always need commas).

but "Teddy's for sale" is an indictment on our education system.

It is strange considering almost everyone must have been taught this in school. Perhaps some people just forget these rules as they get older.

😂😂

@Losttheplotsometimeago the thing is, there are straightforward aspects to all languages. So yes, Russian tenses may be relatively simple. But there are many other aspects of Russian grammar that are really challenging. And a major barrier for English speakers learning Russian is the lack of understanding of English grammar. I work with a lot of Russian teachers, and they absolutely despair of working with English speakers who haven't learnt another language before, because they know that they will struggle so much with grasping grammatical concepts. Learning Latin and German is a distinct advantage which so many English people don't have access to.