To not be desperate for 'mum friends '

[Zumma]

DS is 12 weeks old. We moved to a new area last year so don't know loads of people apart from a few neighbours and acquaintances from the pub we went to before he was born.

A few people have commented about joining local baby groups etc and said it will be great for me to meet 'mum friends'. I've signed up for some already mainly as I think they'll be beneficial for DS. I'll also happily chit chat casually to other mums there as you do, but I can't imagine that I'll find really strong friendships there nor am I that bothered.

I didn't bother with an NCT group, partly due to distance of nearest one but also not keen on the idea that you all have to be 'friends' after and keep up with eachother in a Whatssapp group. A few friends have told me about various dramas with their NCT friends and it sounds quite childish and exhausting.

I mentioned this to a cousin the other day and she thought I was being antisocial and unfriendly. I've reflected on my attitude as I can see where she's coming from.

I think over the years growing up, I had some bad experiences with groups of girls (mild bullying, gossip etc) so the idea of actively seeking out groups of mums to be good friends with fills me with dread in case there's any bitchiness or horrid dynamics. I know we're all adults but it still happens - I've read a few threads on here about NCT groups and mums at the school gate to see what goes wrong. It's my idea of hell and I think it would take me back to feeling like an inadequate young girl again so I actively avoid it.

When I was younger I was often making friends with people due to having one thing in common eg on the same course or houseshare but beyond that there was nothing else so friendships were so superficial and fizzled out quickly. I imagine it's similar if the only thing you have in common with someone is you had kids at the same time?

I do have old friends of 5 or 10 years who are mums and I've connected well with them on motherhood although they don't live close by.

I'm probably overthinking the whole thing and I will obviously be friendly and chatty at the baby groups and if a genuine and nice friendship emerges then great but I suppose I'm much more selective and reserved about closer friendships these days and don't want to feel like I have to be everyone's friend and force pointless mum friendships as it hasn't worked well for me in the past. I'm also OK with my own company mostly as I often see family and old friends at weekends even though they're not local.

I'm sure as DS is older they'll be more happening with playmates and parties but for now I'm not desperately seeking out mum friends.

YABU - motherhood is a great time for new friendships and you're overthinking and missing an opportunity

YANBU - you're right to be reflective and cautious about these friendships and do what feels comfortable and genuine

I've loved making mum friends I kind of see them like colleagues- probably won't keep in touch with most of them forever but they get what I'm going through now and can give support and advice, and means I have people to see during the working week and don't bore my usual friends with chat of weaning and nappy brands!

'All women tend to do is show off'

Gosh! Not my experience at all. Lots of advice and sympathy shared between mums of babys of similar ages - they really get it when you're tired, struggling emotionally, unsure about feeding etc, more than other friends or family do.

There is a narrative about smug mums. Eg if a mum mentions her baby sleeps well she's smug. Mine does, and I've been terrified to tell people in case someone like this thinks I'm showing off!

I don’t think anyone thinks socialising is for the babies. And frankly, with an attitude like yours, I doubt other women, whether they’re parents or not, are beating down your door wanting to be friends.

I was glad of some company mid weeks. 2 friends off around same time. It can be lonely at home when everyone is working.

There are different reasons for going to baby groups - I felt i needed to be out of the house most days when my dc were very small so a baby group filled up part of the week. Sometimes we just went to the park or went shopping but actually it was nice to have adult company/chat for an hour.

It's often easier to socialise with people at the same stage. Another mum with a toddler is probably more likely to spend the morning at soft play or the zoo than an elderly friend, or someone with teens. I have a good friend with children 10 years younger than mine. It's harder to arrange meet ups when teens don't necessarily have the same interests as toddlers.

I haven't made friends with groups of mums but have made friends with individual women I've met since having kids. They are lovely and not bitchy. After my husband died I was really glad I had female friends I could meet up with rather than only socialising with couples. It was a godsend. Our kids are nearly grown up now.
I don't really hold with the "Women are bitchy/Men are lovely" cliché. I worked with a group of men who were quite bitchy and look at what men can be like online!

Forget to mention that two of my friends were women I met at toddler group and clicked with and one was a primary school mum. We've not met up with kids for years. I met plenty of women at toddler groups and school that weren't friendship material but the ones I did click with have been friends for 15-20 years and probably always will be.

I moved to an area before I had my son. Everyone told me I would make friends once I had kids. I had a kid and still didn’t make friends; it just wasn’t that kind of area. When my son was 2, I moved to an area 25 miles away and have made mum acquaintances and non-mum friends. It’s a super friendly area where everyone says hello!

Little ones like little ones. When they are happily playing with each other, you get a break.

Maternity leave is a shock to the finances. Having coffee at each other’s houses is cheaper.

At a friend’s house, you worry less about safety and behaviour than you would in a public place.

See it as a friendly colleague thing, not a lifelong soul mate thing.

Interesting.
There's no particular reason why you should have mum friends but I wouldn't be without mine. I've got a massive range of mum friends built up over 18 years including one quite big group.

I have found it invaluable for social, practical and emotional support. And it's great to be able to share experiences with my kids friends and their parents.

I have 2 good friends with girls the same age as my oldest and we go away for weekends regularly. The girls are all 18 now and we have great fun!

I am yet to experience the widespread MN classic group of cliquey, snobby, exclusionary Mums in reality.

You will find some other Mums who make great company right now when babies are little but it all tails off as you are busy in life and you will find others you just click with and make great long term friends. You have nothing to lose by going out and meeting others; even if its the former, it makes maternity leave so much more enjoyable to have some company.

Going forwards, if you make great friends and trust them, you end up helping each other out which is absolutely invaluable

I think mum friends come into their own with a toddler. They’re not my best buds. But my day consists of “how am I going to entertain the toddler” (was part time and currently on mat leave) and doing that with another adult is so much easier than on my own. So I’m friendly with people that work part time and have a similar aged child. I don’t see many of my other friends (those with children different ages or child free) because we’re in different places in our lives and they work. Weekends are precious family time with DH. On the flip side I’ve bonded with some friends who were once distant because we have similar age children. Very few people want to have a conversation along the lines of “I did a fart” or engage with a 10 minute tantrum because toddler ate the last of the raisins. That’s easier with mums.

I think these type of circumstantial friendships work if you keep perspective. So rather than going in with the idea of finding a close circle of supportive confidents who's company will bring you joy, you see them more as colleagues.
We're all doing the same job here and a bit of social interaction, companionship, sharing of ideas can make the day go by. You may be very lucky and amongst your mum 'colleagues' find someone you really gel with, in which case you've found a friend. Bonus!
Again, like the workplace, there can be toxicity arising from competition, gossip, and being thrown together with some individuals you don't care for. So the trick is to keep some distance, don't get drawn in to drama and don't over invest. You won't be 'working' with these people for ever, so it can all stay superficial and in perspective.

You don’t have to become instant ‘best buddies’ with the other mums you meet but it is more comfortable for you and your son to have a wider circle of people to interact with. You are sharing a common bond by having children of a similar age and it will be nice for your child to get to know the children he will be going to Nursery/School with. You may also well find that one or two of the other mums will become more than just passing acquaintances. Don’t let past experiences put you off. Find a friendly, supportive Mother&Baby group. I found they differed wildly in how welcoming they were but eventually found a lovely group and actually looked forward to going.

Colleagues is a great way of describing it. My closest "colleague" has a little girl who is DS4's best friend and they are as energetic, loud and boisterous as each other. We get on well enough for a weekly 2 hour meetup. But they're going to 2 different schools and the differing interests are starting to interfere, so I'm fairly confident we'll have finished our "joint project" by Christmas and be down to a friendly wave.

I really valued my small NCT group. We didn't all stick it out as one group and there was a 'character' in the group that got dropped as she tried to cause drama and another wasn't too interested in remaining friends but wasn't unfriendly.

I remained friends with two people from the group on a one to one basis. What I'm trying to say with all of this is that they were all individuals, not just generic mums, and therefore some friendships lasted and others didn't. We all had some lovely chats in the early newborn days when the world was our babies but as others have said, you need more than that to make a good friend.

I don't regret putting myself out there and making the effort, as I got two friends in the process. My toddler DS also has two little friends.

Playgroups are a good place to make more casual friends that you don't have to see outside of the sessions.

I can relate to this quite well. I had my daughter 2 weeks before the initial lock down, having only relocated a year before. I had some work friend's from my new job but obviously they were all at work during the day. By the time I could go out my daughter was 14 months. I also couldn't be bothered with NCT groups, and knew no one else with a baby anywhere near me. I found a Gym Tots group in a village but found the group very cliquey. I also went back to work 3 days a week so felt like my opportunity to meet mum friends passed me by.
Tbf, I felt not having friends with babies the same age, saved me from all of the comparisons and worries that she wasn't developing at the right times (she was). My daughter is now 3.5 and I have a friend with a baby 1 year younger and another with one 3 years older. It suits me fine. Xx

This exactly. I had friends I still have many of those sane friend from be DC and eldest is 32 I've also since made friends with people who are Mums and their kids were in school with mine but not THROUGH the kids. Met them at other events. Tbh I didn't change my interests when kids were born so I wasn't really going to start attending things that i wasn't interested in just because I had a baby. And maternity leave wasn't do bloody long then so not as much time to get bored. My DD2 has a nearly 6 year old She was back at work just before he was 5 months old and never really died the baby group circuit either. And the boy is taxied to and from school so she doesn't need to do the school run meetings with other parents either

It's not obligatory to do these things. Purely matter of choice

Conversely, I had a newborn in lockdown plus a toddler and really felt the lack of contact with other mothers of children the same age. Perhaps I would have felt differently had I only had the baby.

been there, done that, stopped bothering. Focus on friendships that are wholesome to you.

But a bit sad that you assume groups of mothers will be bitchy and childish.

They can be. Dealing with school gate mums is like being back at school yourself. Yuck!

They can be. Dealing with school gate mums is like being back at school yourself. Yuck!

I don't understand that "school mums" are a certain type of person different from the person describing them
At the school gate there will likely be a selection of people who have 1 thing in common - their child's age. There will be some you get on with and some you don't...surely like any other situation where you meet a group of people....? (Sports clubs, hobbies, work, weddings, parties etc)

I think most people acquire friendships from a whole host of different periods in your life, some will be around for a time and drift away, others will stick with you. Still my best best friends are those I met as a baby (the ones my Mum was Mum friends with their Mums!) I agree with the colleague analogy. Personally I would’ve struggled without those Mum friends who are going through the same thing. Those pregnancy/baby groups kept me sane, the days can be soooo looooong and boring with a baby and meeting mum friends and going to groups gives your week routine and structure and a bit of adult company. 14 years on some of these ‘colleagues’ have developed into lifelong friendships and can’t imagine life without them, keep in some contact with others, and a few I was glad to see the back of!

It's absolutely up to you if you'd like mum friends or not. Maternity leave and looking after a small baby can be very lonely and repetitive - it's really nice to chat and meet up with others going through the same. So for me it was a lifeline. My childless friends just couldn't get it in the same way. But if you feel like you'd rather not of course that's entirely your prerogative! You don't have to do anything you don't want to.

Listen, it's entirely up to you. Of course you don't have to be friends with anyone, you might like spending most of the day just you and your child. But for many, maternity leave is long and it's nice to have friends that you regularly meet up with. Also as your baby gets older they will be less easy to chuck in a sling and go and do the things that you want to do, it's nice to have people you can talk to at softplay or whatever.

Saying you don't want mum friends in particular is a bit strange. Mums are just women who have children at the same time. It's like saying you don't want work friends, pub friends or running friends. There is very little that this group has in common. For my part, I was friendly to everyone, but obviously didn't make friends with everyone. I sought out the women who I had things in common with and who parented in ways that were compatible with my parenting. I really valued my "mum friends" - they are fantastic women and we supported each other through the trials of early motherhood.

And I have to say that this comment reeks of internalised misogyny. "I had some bad experiences with groups of girls (mild bullying, gossip etc) so the idea of actively seeking out groups of mums to be good friends with fills me with dread in case there's any bitchiness or horrid dynamics."

Why on earth are you comparing adult women to school children? The idea of women being "bitchy" is just self-hating misogyny, stemming from the idea that the standard for women is to be kind to everyone. Some women are nice, some are not. There is nothing about being a woman that makes you awful to others - only people who think that women are inherently awful would think this (i.e. only misogynists thinks this).

They can be. Dealing with school gate mums is like being back at school yourself. Yuck!

People you meet in every environment have the potential to be immature or unkind. Applies to colleagues, university friends, hobby friends, both males and females. If you believe this only applies to Mums, it is more a reflection on you than anyone else