Husband wants every Christmas with his family?

[ChouxPastryHeart]

Hi all :-)
This is my first time posting and I would really love some advice. It will be quite long so I can give proper context, so please bear with me!

DH and I have been together 10 years. He is Swedish, and I am Italian but grew up in Scotland with my mother and sister. We met in Scotland, but moved to Sweden in Oct 2019 to start a family. For the first 5 years of our relationship, we agreed that it was only fair to alternate Christmas between our two families, so one year we would stay in Scotland with my mum and sister and then the next we travelled to Sweden and spent it with his parents (his mum is now widowed but has new partner) maternal grandparents, BIL + his wife and kids.

In 2018, I became estranged from my mum and sister due to dysfunctional family dynamics, so we spent that Christmas just us as a couple in Scotland and till this day, we still say it was one of our favourite Christmases.

Since 2019, we have spent Christmas with his family. They have a tradition where they all meet up on the 23rd so that godparents of the BIL’s kids get candy and small gift. Then, there’s a Christmas dinner on 24th after which presents are opened.

Now we have two DD’s, 2.5 + 1 year old and for years, I’ve been saying to DH that once we have kids, I want us to start our own traditions. I think spending the 23rd and 24th with his extended family is too much. My ideal scenario would be to go see them the 23rd, stay at our home the 24th with just us and DD’s and do the whole build up to Christmas Day the British way so that kids open up presents on 25th instead of 24th. DH is opposed to this and says that we can still be with his family on 24th and be at home just us the 25th and create traditions for then. The thing is though, we’d get home at around 8pm to put DD’s to bed, knackered and frazzled, and we would have no time to prep for the next day like we would if we were at home the whole time. I think it’s unfair for him to expect us to always go to his family. He has had a good deal the last 4 years considering I have had no family to travel to Scotland for anymore. His ideal scenario now that his grandparents are too old to host, is that we take turns with us and BIL hosting the whole family every 24th. Am I being unreasonable to want to have the 24th to ourselves?

MIL is the type that always likes to get her way and has a tantrum when that’s not the case. She kicked up a fuss on Mother’s Day because I wanted to go out with a friend to have some me time instead of visiting her with DH and DD’s. 🙄

I disagree. My children are British with a Danish mother. They all celebrate Christmas on the 24th over the 25th. This year dd1(25) is spending it with boyfriends family for the first time and she is having serious concerns about it "not feeling like Christmas " because they won't do the 24th traditions. All 4 of mine says they will continue to do Christmas on the 24th.

It is possible to keep other traditions and make them a part of your family. Op needs to find a way to make both cultures valid without as they are doing right now suppressing 1.

Whilst I dont agree with scrapping the 24th all together nor do I agree with scrapping ops traditions. Both are of value.

Thank you so much for your empathy here. I do to an extent, agree, that it makes sense to celebrate on the 24th, in line with the Swedish custom since we live here and our daughters will grow up here. At the same time though, it’s not relaxing for me to be with DH’s family every Christmas - I am still learning Swedish and although I can have a simple conversation at this point, when the whole family talks, I don’t understand a word because it’s so fast. Plus, when we are there, only a few of them make the effort to speak a little in English with me. It really upsets me because I still feel like an outsider after all of these years.

I'm not saying spend every 24th December at the Inlaws house.

Just, that for the kids the main Christmas Day will still be the 24th.

They could host the Swedish dinner on the 24th at their house, which I hope they do some of the years.

I do also sympathise with you OP on the family estrangement.

It's nigh on impossible to 'unlove' an immediate family member, regardless of how badly they have treated you.

Speaking from my own experience that means residing in conflicted feelings.

It's a bit like an invisible cart that I keep noticing I am pulling around behind me in some way and I can't seem to uncouple it.

This might also be contributing to your sense of being an 'outsider' as you have no other family to fall back on. Have you close friends in Scotland you are in touch with? If so, don't let those slide and try to build on the quality of those friendships.

I think she should host if she wants to host but I think Christmas is a time for kids / extended family so given she doesn’t have one if I were DH I’d expect to spend it with his.

I actually partially agree with this - I far prefer to see extended family on Christmas. But I'm surprised to see it being pushed so much here as usually MN is very much in favour of people having a "core family" Christmas.

I think the tradition of alternating between the mum and dad's family is dual purpose really, one is so that both get to see their family on Christmas, and the other is so that they don't ALWAYS have to be with their in laws on Christmas. That might sound harsh but seems obvious and generally should just go unspoken to me. I don't mind my in laws but I spend time with them for DH's sake, I don't enjoy it in the same way he and the kids do. I don't enjoy their Christmas traditions very much, the whole thing is a big compromise for me. The same goes for my DP in reverse. So I don't think it should be a matter of "oh you don't have family to visit so we might as well just see mine every year". The other person deserves the opportunity to actually feel relaxed and like they can dictate what happens on the day. If that means on "their" alternating year they're just at home with the core family, then that's fair enough.

I'm with you OP. You moved countries. You have given up so much of your culture and must see his family a lot throughout the year. You deserve to have some input into your family traditions and your kids should get some Christmases mum's way. I'd alternate years. Or every 23rd with DH family and alternate 24/25th.

We have a Swedish friend who was married to a Brit (in the U.K.) and often spent Christmas together.

Whether we were at theirs or ours, she’d do her usual Swedish Christmas meal on Christmas Eve, and I’d do ours on the 25th, no problem.

You are living in Sweden.

Your DH and family are Swedish and your kids are half Swedish.

You need to make more of an effort to learn the language and get involved in Swedish life.

Its not really fair how everything needs to be changed because of one person.

Your kids will want to do similar to what their friends do, who will all follow the Swedish tradition.

Of course you can have your own Scottish Tradition but that would be on the 25th anyway so it doesn’t clash with the Swedish traditions at all.

It sounds like you’re making excuses and just trying to be difficult tbh.

The bottom line for me is your dh needs to be far more accommodating and understanding. He should insist the meal is brought forward by an hour/half an hour to make it easier for your joint children to enjoy as a bare minimum snd respect your Scottish traditions.

Thank you so much for your empathy here. I do to an extent, agree, that it makes sense to celebrate on the 24th, in line with the Swedish custom since we live here and our daughters will grow up here. At the same time though, it’s not relaxing for me to be with DH’s family every Christmas - I am still learning Swedish and although I can have a simple conversation at this point, when the whole family talks, I don’t understand a word because it’s so fast. Plus, when we are there, only a few of them make the effort to speak a little in English with me. It really upsets me because I still feel like an outsider after all of these years.

I totally get how you feel OP, and that's without having experienced the language barrier. You shouldn't have to feel that way every single Christmas on the main day of celebration, whenever that may be. Every other year is plenty!

At the same time though, it’s not relaxing for me to be with DH’s family every Christmas - I am still learning Swedish and although I can have a simple conversation at this point, when the whole family talks, I don’t understand a word because it’s so fast. Plus, when we are there, only a few of them make the effort to speak a little in English with me. It really upsets me because I still feel like an outsider after all of these years.

OP I do empathise as this was my situation when I lived in DH's home country. It's not easy. But there really is no solution other than to improve your language skills -- avoiding the family, especially keeping your kids from important family events, is not the answer.

Is your DH being supportive with your language learning?

At the same time though, it’s not relaxing for me to be with DH’s family every Christmas - I am still learning Swedish and although I can have a simple conversation at this point, when the whole family talks, I don’t understand a word because it’s so fast. Plus, when we are there, only a few of them make the effort to speak a little in English with me. It really upsets me because I still feel like an outsider after all of these years.

It does seem to me that the one doing all the compromising here is you.

You're doing your best. You're trying to learn the language (and it's a difficult language to learn). Christmas is a tough time of year when you're estranged from your family. My parents died long before our DC was born, and despite the joy of having a child around it's a time of year that does seem to amplify loss and make the absence of those people from our lives that much more immediate. In situations where your in-laws are not what they might be, it makes things even more difficult. I really think your DH might be more understanding on this point.

Your children are of dual heritage. They are living in Sweden: this does not make their maternal lineage less important. What your husband is insisting upon has no room for maneouvre and no compromise.

I have every sympathy with your position.

The bottom line for me is your dh needs to be far more accommodating and understanding. He should insist the meal is brought forward by an hour/half an hour to make it easier for your joint children to enjoy as a bare minimum snd respect your Scottish traditions.

They can have their normal Scottish traditions on the 25th, which is the normal day for the UK.

Why should the entire family change their traditions and routine to suit nap times.

It’s only 3/4 hours.
I’m sure for the sake of the children and their traditions that they’ll love as they get older, OP can cope another year or 2.

The kids won’t even have naps soon so it’s literally going to happen 2 or maybe 3 times more and that’s it.

Why should the entire family change their traditions and routine to suit nap times.

It's perfectly normal to adapt things when young kids are involved. My in laws live an hour away, it would be really impractical for them to start something at 7pm, their bedtime. It would be really dickish of them to flat out refuse to compromise at all so it is actually practical for small children to be involved, if that's what they want.

Why are so many here so totally adamant that the DH's traditions are absolutely sacrosanct and they cannot compromise at all?

I'd want a compromise for another two years. You only go on the 23rd and he goes on the 24th. Then you have your Christmas together. Tbh it's much better for the children to have the family meet up and keep in with the traditions/celebrations that their class mates have. He could take them if you have prepping to do. Then when they are older they do both, until they decide that they don't want to. In the future they might not want to do your version.

"Why are so many here so totally adamant that the DH's traditions are absolutely sacrosanct and they cannot compromise at all?"

It's the whole countries tradition. Their school friends will be doing the same. Sit at home while Mum preps (I've never really got that tbh unless you are hosting) or have a fun time with family having Christmas. As someone who is second generation immigrant and mix with immigrant families, it doesn't really work to totally reject the traditional celebrations of the country that you've settled in.

So they can't even do things slightly earlier so it isn't totally inconvenient for their guests?

You live in Sweden, your DH is Swedish and your children are half-Swedish with only Swedish family involved in their lives? Your children's friends and neighbours will all be celebrating on the 24th? Don't you think it makes more sense, that your own non-Swedish traditions are in addition to this, lovely but not really the main event as far as they're concerned? I feel like your own family estrangement lends a wistfulness to your Christmas, OP, when maybe it's better for you to embrace your new life and family who want to spend Christmas with you.

Not necessarily. I recall both from my time at school and my DCs' that families often had different traditions at home based on family culture. So central European descent families had the traditional Xmas Eve dinner and presents, East European and other Orthodox along with Iberians had Epiphany as their present giving day and main celebration, a handful from Benelux countries celebrated Sinterklaas. All in the UK. The smart kids would wangle double celebration days and have the traditional British Christmas day as well.

This never seemed odd or out of line, any more than the kids from different faiths/cultures celebrating other religious days through the year.

I’m trying my best to get through all the responses, but I just wanted to clarify something. Growing up, my parents celebrated Christmas the Italian way so we actually had a dinner on Christmas Eve and then opened presents. It was always just the four of us though, since all other family lived in Italy and didn’t have the means to visit. I always thought it was really nice that all of my classmates woke up on 25th to presents, because my parents never did that, and it’s something I think would be lovely to do with my own kids. I do agree that my kids shouldn’t miss out on doing things the Swedish way with extended family since we live in Sweden, but why is it unreasonable to compromise and do this on alternate years instead of every year?

From some responses, people have assumed that I just want to peel potatoes and do prep on the 24th, but I actually would love to use that day to play with my kids, build a fort with fairy lights, watch a Christmas film, have a nice dinner and then anticipate Santa coming the next morning. I would do an Italian style dinner but keep it fairly simple so I’m not spending hours in the kitchen.

Someone also wrote that I need to just adapt to life here and make the effort to learn the language - I totally agree and I have been taking courses to learn, but it takes time. I had 2 kids spaced 1.5 years apart after only a year of moving to Sweden, so time hasn’t been that much in abundance to focus 100% on language studies. I have embraced many Swedish traditions since moving here and I actually enjoy them, but this does not mean that just because I live in Sweden, I have to always do everything the Swedish way. I took with me a blend of Italian and Scottish culture: it is part of my identity and it is not fair to expect me to sacrifice that, or to expect it is unreasonable of me to want to pass some of this down to my daughters. This is part of why I find it difficult to be around my mother in law: apart from the fact that she believes she is always right, she is extremely set in her ways and finds it difficult to see things from other perspectives. She has often said ‘but we live in Sweden, that’s how we do it here’ about many things. I just do not agree with that. I am not obliged to conform to every tradition just because I moved country. I find this very narrow minded.

Your DP needs to now make the transition to prioritising his own family unit over and above the one he grew up in. I divorced an ex DH and a major reason was the constant prioritising of childhood family, childhood role being replicated by deffering to Mum. Huge turn off. Don't put up with it, his problem. Just word things in a non open ended way, "I'm looking forward to our first family Christmas with our children, what 2 things will you really want to make into traditions". You could invite them on the 23rd making clear timings, 3-7pm. People think it's offensive to do this type of thing but it makes life much easier as its a take it or leave it approach. You don't need to apologise for wanting hour family time.

To your kids though does this not just mean they get no presents on their Christmas Day and have to wait 24 hours longer than all their friends to celebrate? Wouldn't they be happier celebrating on both the 24th and 25th with family? Double fun for them?

But think about how that sounds to the rest of the family OP -- we're not coming over to your big traditional Christmas dinner because we want to stay home and watch a film and wait for Santa to come tomorrow. It just will not make sense to them.

It would actually make more sense if you said you wanted to have a big Italian Christmas at home on the 24th, because you couldn't do both at the same time.

I know you are talking about wanting to preserve your own traditions, but you can actually do that without excluding the local traditions. I don't see how you can get what you want without giving a sense that you don't like your DH's family or don't care about hurting his and their feelings.

I think you have the bones of a perfect set-up: Swedish Xmas on the 24th, and Scottish Xmas (you, DH and dc only) on the 25th and on Boxing Day. Because it's not exactly a Scottish Xmas that you want, it's a your-own-family Xmas.

You may kinda hate the 24th, and I can understand that. But do your dc might love it? Cousins to play with? Is Grandma's house fun?

The 25th is all yours - no one else is trying to take it. And Boxing Day is the perfect time for fairy light forts and Christmas movies.

If the 24th is really a trial for you... agree to go every other year. But the 25th - your family Christmas - that happens EVERY year. That is your rock-solid tradition with dh and the dc.

I also think that you have a 'now' problem with the 24th (don't speak or understand much Swedish) that will disappear with time. By this Christmas you will speak more, by next Christmas probably quite a lot more (if you are willing and able to work at it).

I think you should embrace both Christmases like we do. Julbord on the 24th with extended family, traditional British Christmas dinner on 25th with immediate family. See it as an advantage, many Mumsnetters would be made up if the inlaws only wanted contact on Christmas eve.