To consider myself working class?

[TheCatsKnickers]

I'm fully aware that it doesn't matter, but for the sake of argument - basically an ongoing debate with friend who insists I am middle class - which of us would be correct?

My background:
Dad probs upper working, good job but no higher education, bought our house and subsequent houses without mortgage. Mum from educated family but was SAHM. Grew up in MC area and schools, kept horses but more rough and tumble than 'posh'. Had a few years off too travel and have fun in late teens largely funded by parents, then went to uni late and studied fine art.
This, according to my friend cements me as MC.

The present day:
Followed my passion and became a painter. Didn't want to marry or have children so chose to rent. Preferred this as could move around and experience different places. Bit of a free spirit, but had to accept some financial insecurity for the pleasure! Am now in 40's and still similar, very content with long term DP but, I presume, not typical for many my age.
I have a decent 5 figure sum in savings although we received only a smallish inheritance due to both parents needing care in old age (they had also given their second property to an aunt and uncle who developed health issues in later life).
My income is somewhat fluid and would possibly terrify some, but I have intermittently earned very, very well and often receive high payments for my work (anywhere from £200 to £1k per commission or piece), but some months are quite the opposite.
So my lifestyle is not standard and has some financial insecurity, but I made my own choices.
Therefore, since I don't own a home or have a private pension I perceive my status to be 'working class', regardless of my background privileges and lifestyle. My friend argues not!

Which of us is correct?

I meant my current income not my background.
I also never said there was anything wrong with MC. I don't think there's anything wrong with any of them!

I am interested, if someone might enlighten me - why does my online 'voice' or way of speaking make me 'obviously' middle class?
And if people can move into the middle class from the working class, why can't someone move 'down'?

If I am now renting property, have diminishing savings and a precarious income, how can I be labelled MC?
(And for the record, no, I do not think that we need these labels, it is just a discussion!)

Your last paragraph is what solidly places you in middle class territory, in my opinion.

Fair enough.

OP find yourself a publisher. Best thing I ever did ☺️

You’re MC.

What on earth makes you think you can identify with WC people?
Your post minimises the genuine struggles that WC people go through and the lack of choices they have. You and I are not the same.

Of course people can move down, but IMO that happens across multiple generations rather than a singular generation. For example, had you chosen to have children, they may be more moving towards working class than you are (due to their less privileged upbringing brought about by parental choice)

For example; you rent therefore may not have the same “safety net” of an inheritance property to pass on. And you may be less likely to be able to fund gap years, or arts based university course study.

I would usually ignore this sort of comment but I would love to know why you said it. I am wondering if my fucking head is on properly. I can generally intuit what people are getting at but this thread, especially the greek comment (?), is something else

This a million times! Jeez, I generally assume I’m middle class - grandad and dad miners, mum trained in her 40s as a teacher and I ended up going to uni (Tho I can’t say I generally think about it) and you sound way posher than me!!

I am laughing here at the idea that I could have 'demoted' my progeny due to becoming an artist! I am not fit for purpose!

On a serious note, thanks for replying to that, Sadly I am still confused!

who discusses that, to the pound, online?

Also, all joking aside - OP you really need to cop on. You seem to have no idea of issues with education and employment, no concept of challenges people face and yet you still want to negate them. You do you, but if you steal other peoples identity you also do an injustice to the issues they care about.

Because you said you were an artist on a precarious income. I used to be in a similar position but found myself a fine art publisher which means a consistently good income, nothing as exciting or eminently ignorable as you might imagine!

Ah, sorry, misread that. I did have an agent many years ago but have had more success working alone. I am represented by a few galleries and manage to market decently online. I do need to consider new moves though, as some areas have been touch and go since covid.
I have a ton of older illustration work that I would love to publish, will def look into that.

steal other people's identity

you've lost me, sorry.

This thread is funny...
OP, the 'Greek comment' is a line from Pulp's Common People song.
Please Google as it's very apt! - no offence meant!

I think class is often more about attitude and education than income and assets.

I’ve seen both upward and downward mobility around me.

My father was brought up VERY working class (single income of a miner/labourer, his mum was a SAHM and he had 6 siblings) yet worked hard and had some good fortune and I was brought up far better than he was (still working class but my parents owned a modest mortgaged home, we had several UK holidays a year) and my kids are probably being brought up upper working:lower middle class.

A family member inherited two properties, sold both and bought one larger property. Despite this, their kids were brought up fairly cash poor, because their parents never held stable jobs. Neither of their kids own homes now, one is unemployed and one works part time in savers.

I think a lot of us in the UK don't see ourselves as in either camp, but that is likely just personal bias. I don't know. I certainly don't feel that my life since leaving home identifies with either WC or MC. And of course it doesn't matter

I know you’ve been mocked a bit and I’m really trying hard not to do that, and to be nice, but I think that part of the reason you don’t see yourself as being in either camp and why you think class doesn’t matter is because you’ve had a lot of advantages that you’ve had absolutely no idea you’ve had. It’s very easy to pretend that class doesn’t matter when nobody assumes you’re thick because you didn’t go to university. Or nobody is shocked that you and your siblings all have the same biological father simply because you’re one of four and grew up on a council estate (I’ve had that one a few times).

Lots of people. It’s anonymous, and also who cares? What could possibly happen?

My pre tax salary is £47.5k.

I have seen something similar - a fairly distant relative was struggling in a high cost rented house and was left a 3 bed detached inheritance. They lived in it for 5 years then sold it to rent a 1 bed flat.
I don't think it is fair to judge though, in this case they didn't want that kind of life. It's fair enough. I have often experienced pity or judgement because I didn't buy a home. Not everyone is fixated on that, and life is cruelly short.

How did you earn your living when you followed your passion and decided to become a painter? You mention some recent commissions but I guess it took a while to get to that point?

You have had a lot of advantages that you are ignoring/not acknowledging to claim an identity ‘being working class’ that is not yours. IMO.

Initially? I was incredibly lucky, regardless my past. I found a large audience quickly and was surprised how it took off. There are many pitfalls and months of uncertainty, but I managed to just live as frugally as I could.
As an adult, whilst my parents would have helped me if in trouble, they did not pay my rent. I sometimes did extra work for friends who could afford me a few hours, dog walking and stuff. When I lived with my DP life was much more affordable!

All of those are easily learned behaviours. You could be solidly working class and picked up "lav" from the TV.