To consider myself working class?

[TheCatsKnickers]

I'm fully aware that it doesn't matter, but for the sake of argument - basically an ongoing debate with friend who insists I am middle class - which of us would be correct?

My background:
Dad probs upper working, good job but no higher education, bought our house and subsequent houses without mortgage. Mum from educated family but was SAHM. Grew up in MC area and schools, kept horses but more rough and tumble than 'posh'. Had a few years off too travel and have fun in late teens largely funded by parents, then went to uni late and studied fine art.
This, according to my friend cements me as MC.

The present day:
Followed my passion and became a painter. Didn't want to marry or have children so chose to rent. Preferred this as could move around and experience different places. Bit of a free spirit, but had to accept some financial insecurity for the pleasure! Am now in 40's and still similar, very content with long term DP but, I presume, not typical for many my age.
I have a decent 5 figure sum in savings although we received only a smallish inheritance due to both parents needing care in old age (they had also given their second property to an aunt and uncle who developed health issues in later life).
My income is somewhat fluid and would possibly terrify some, but I have intermittently earned very, very well and often receive high payments for my work (anywhere from £200 to £1k per commission or piece), but some months are quite the opposite.
So my lifestyle is not standard and has some financial insecurity, but I made my own choices.
Therefore, since I don't own a home or have a private pension I perceive my status to be 'working class', regardless of my background privileges and lifestyle. My friend argues not!

Which of us is correct?

That is interesting. So if someone did have a low income, you are saying it makes them characteristically WC?
My income is too varied, I can sell something I made years ago for 2k, have a steady stream of monthly commission from various companies that I work with, yet there are months where i don't have much traction at all. It is difficult to place this in class terms, but in economic terms is is precarious, which is why my OP asked about that - although i ought to have said precariat instead of WC.

I am sorry if i read your intentions off the mark, this thread is a minefield!

I'd consider you MC.

I consider myself to be working class but my background is MC. My Dad is from a WC background and my Mum MC. Both well educated with a couple of degrees each, both well paid professionals. Grew up in a MC area but school friends were working class. I did my A levels but foolishly opted out of Uni. Had a large house deposit gifted from parents so we bought before we married. DH from WC background in slightly above average paid job now and I work weekends in retail and a SAHM during the week.

Yes absolutely, I felt he didn't think being MC really fit with the gritty, bohemian image he wanted to present. Ironically that is a very MC rose tinted view of WC life. The reality is free school meals, broken furniture and getting up at 6am to help deliver newspapers with your dad (or whatever side hustle was flavour of the week that week haha)

Haha

I do get your point, but my DP grew up WC and both parents had to work, no car, council property, but they had a good life and no broken furniture (dad was a carpenter) or side line jobs. I think it varies so much it is hard to pin down, possibly why such threads as mine go a bit wobbly.

Agree about the MC kids, they had no idea. Contrary to many opinions of me on this thread I did have friends in my late teens who struggled, had a completely different reality to me. I learned very quickly what was what.
I remember wanting to be like my friend who had a Saturday job and my parents thought i was insane. They treated me with kid gloves as if i would break or something. Ha, one for the therapy pot!
However, my dad was a huge union man who championed council housing and the welfare state. He loathed the establishment.

I saw a small few escape that life - it took a certain defiance. Some were living in violence and crime, I was aware that I didn't have to worry about that, and as a young person I admired their spirit.

You are self-employed and presumably do an annual self-assessment tax return, so you must have some idea.

This horse thing is frustrating.

I come from a rural area and in that area it is fairly common to have horses, even if you live on the council estate. it’s a rural thing, in SW anyway.

I do have some idea.
I am not on MN to discuss the personal details of my actual income, I'm sorry.

do fuck all as an artist

thank you.

My perception is that you are from a middle class background and are now still middle class but without the regular trappings of that lifestyle so Middle Class with a more bohemian lifestyle not unusual for people from middle class or even upper class backgrounds to have a similar lifestyle to you.

While you aren't wealthy as such, you have savings but no private pension or property and you don't appear to be due any further inheritance but you are still middle class due to your cultural and social capital. Many working class people don't own a home, have no savings, no private pension and very little cultural or social capital so you are still doing pretty well relative to many if not most working class people.

Just to add I think working class is so some degree background dependent so growing up poor, in social housing, having parents who grew up working class and poorer. I went to university, am also an artist, married another first generation graduate and we now own our home and have some savings, he has a private pension and makes a good wage. I'd say I we are still working class but done well for ourselves. We both grew up very poor, free school meals, uniform grants. we both have strong regional accents and ways about us that mark us out as working class from our colleagues and many of our friends. We often feel we don't really fit in anywhere well but are often more at ease with people from the social class we grew up in and we still live in a working class community.

Our kids will be more middle class due to the additional privileges they had growing up and not experiencing real poverty or depravations as we did. Holidays abroad, extracurricular activities, better schools, mixing with the kids of our middle class friends. Then their kids might be properly middle class and blend seamlessly with people who's families have been middle class for generations. I think it might depend on who they end up marrying.

This isn't really planned or desired as such but only serves to illustrate my take that class in the UK isn't just about money or property or even education but also background as well as social and cultural capital. I think it probably takes longer than one generation for a person or family to shift out of the working class bracket to middle class and truly be seen as such without reservation.

Exactly as pp above. I’m pretty MC now, but not really when compared to a ‘real’ MC person. You can’t just go to uni and come out middle class. All my generationally middle class friends in the same job as me have much much nicer houses. As if by magic.

Sounds like you have a good life!
You made me think - my DP is WC and has always been in a low income bracket, in some ways I have payed our way, yet at the same time took on a lot of his beliefs and ideas. It is a mixed bag. If I had met someone from a different background my adult life might have been very different! No regrets, but it is interesting to see how the choices we make define our future.

I am who I am after all and can't imitate another cultural group, but like you I don't feel the right fit for anywhere in particular, background or not.

Interesting.
I always wanted to live in many houses, to get to know them, feel them, see what came from that. Perhaps that is more the artist than the practical part of me, but I never wanted to stay in one place.
There are so many things about us that are divorced from class, even though we can't pretend it isn't there.
My dream would be to travel around Europe, staying in different places, experiencing them and painting them.

I do feel that in the everyday sense I am an outlier, I have not secured a solid future for myself and I do sometimes worry. But I have watched so many people around me achieve that goal (a forever home) and it comes with it's own attendant worries. We are all different. It is a shame we are forced to conform, even if subtly, and shamed when we don't.

What i mean is, the rest of my family did follow the script and do live in very nice houses!

What I meant was, we earn the same but they had family financial input from their wealthy MC parents and hence have much nicer houses.

@TheCatsKnickers It is a good life and I have no regrets, I'm proud of my family and where I've come from and proud of what I've achieved. The british class system is daft really but it is what it is so I was just giving my take on it.

Actually given what you have said about marriage I think that marriage is perhaps the fastest way to move up the social classes if you marry someone who is of a higher class than you. If I'd married one of the nice middle class boy's from uni I dated I'd no doubt be "benefiting" from his status / family money or our kids would plus they would model his middle class family to some extent, have grandparents that wanted to pay school fees etc.

I don't long for any of that its just interesting how it all works!

As for your wanderlust and choosing not to have kids, I think that is more an idiosyncratic, personal thing as opposed to class based. Its good to know what you want though and what makes you happy for some people that is following a more regular trajectory for some it's about doing your own thing in your own way, its all fine it's only bad if you end up doing the done thing out of duty or lack of imagination and it makes you unhappy.

MC people also have to pay their bills and can lose their house, you know. We're not all swimming in cash...

It's good to be able to discuss this actually, thanks!
I have no idea what my future holds, which is equally terrifying and exciting. I have to see it that way, or I could wind up riddled with anxiety. You are right, each choice determines our future, yet like you I could not fashion those choices to suit only economic values. I can see why people do, because society is cruel.

I will meander my way forward whatever class bracket I might belong to. I have no other choice!

you might be surprise how many MC families would not help out their kin!

You are right, I have seen this in all walks of life. It is down to the generosity and understanding of people, rather than class - although I agree that if there is no spare cash, even the best intentions can't help.

I have known parents turn a child away in later life, from both sides of the coin. My own were very soft and never judged, but it isn't the rule.

What I have learned from this thread is that if you had an easy start in life, you deserve no sympathy in later life, no matter your heart or mind.