To consider myself working class?

[TheCatsKnickers]

I'm fully aware that it doesn't matter, but for the sake of argument - basically an ongoing debate with friend who insists I am middle class - which of us would be correct?

My background:
Dad probs upper working, good job but no higher education, bought our house and subsequent houses without mortgage. Mum from educated family but was SAHM. Grew up in MC area and schools, kept horses but more rough and tumble than 'posh'. Had a few years off too travel and have fun in late teens largely funded by parents, then went to uni late and studied fine art.
This, according to my friend cements me as MC.

The present day:
Followed my passion and became a painter. Didn't want to marry or have children so chose to rent. Preferred this as could move around and experience different places. Bit of a free spirit, but had to accept some financial insecurity for the pleasure! Am now in 40's and still similar, very content with long term DP but, I presume, not typical for many my age.
I have a decent 5 figure sum in savings although we received only a smallish inheritance due to both parents needing care in old age (they had also given their second property to an aunt and uncle who developed health issues in later life).
My income is somewhat fluid and would possibly terrify some, but I have intermittently earned very, very well and often receive high payments for my work (anywhere from £200 to £1k per commission or piece), but some months are quite the opposite.
So my lifestyle is not standard and has some financial insecurity, but I made my own choices.
Therefore, since I don't own a home or have a private pension I perceive my status to be 'working class', regardless of my background privileges and lifestyle. My friend argues not!

Which of us is correct?

Give a deposit not lend. I don't know anyone mc who pays their parents back for things or buys things for their parents other than treats.
The wc people seem to pay back any deposit lent or even money given in hard times. The mc grandparents pay for or do childcare, give lump sums to help with extra curricular etc.

This is regardless of income to an extent, more a value system that parents always look after / out for their children as opposed to being an adult and so going / paying your own way.

This isn't something I have experienced, which may say something about my family dynamic, although I don't fully know if it is an issue of class?

Our GP's were the other way and we looked after them. I imagine there is no fixed pattern. I understand what you say about a value system though. That is definitely a thing.

That said, my parents were the 'boomers' not their parents. It might depend upon how old we are. My dad was born in 1934. The grandparents in our family were comfortable but not as much as their offspring.
My mother's parents were homeowners and in education but by the time my family were established we took care of them. We had to force them to have a phone fitted.

My husband is wc but we are mc, I was always mc but def lower middle class. I see the value differences even though his parents had technically more than mine there was no comparison financially, which was def value based. It just wouldn't occur to them that as an adult they could help. My mil worries now and thinks she is one step from homelessness, more like 10k off being a millionaire. It's not based on emotional difference really, but viewpoint. Plus eventually my parents would have more due to the mc attitude towards shares and investments.

My mil worries now and thinks she is one step from homelessness, more like 10k off being a millionaire.

If she and your DH were WC, how did she accrue this?
I personally don't assign any judgement to this, yet most of the comments on this thread insist that WC people are all in poverty.

No that's more the underclass and very low working class. They bought a house near London 55 odd years ago!

Plumbers and builders who are employed or self employed with a very small team are always wc. No matter if they earn 100k. Same for taxi drivers etc. If they start a business and become medium size say employ 50 to 200 people I'd say mc. But really you don't change class, your kids do. So my kids are mc but my husband will never be. If you had a child now they might be upper working class but you are always mc even if destitute. The uc remain so even when living in a derelict Palace in debt.

It all sounds terribly complicated
I wonder why there are so many definitions and categories in this. It is such a weird waste of our time and energy to even contemplate. I think we all need a good rest from it!

The 'underclass' is a disgusting term to me. It reminds me of Marx and the lumpen proletariat, that category which are depraved and inconsequential. Yet according to Marx it is the step just above them who are the most pliable to manipulation by the over/upper class ; typically galvanised via think tanks such as rupert murdoch, masquerading as the proletariat's friend on order to divide them.

And you sound rude and pig ignorant. Why have you put artist in quote marks, when that is clearly how the OP makes her living?

I have been a waitress, shop worker, cleaner, admin. I put myself through art school when I was in my 30s, whilst still working as well. I then made my living solely as a painter. It is not easy, it is not 'wafting', it is not a hobby job any more than my other jobs were. Art is a skill and it is hard work.

@nonheme I can't believe someone actually said that! What ever happened to compassion for one's fellow man, don't they know that everyone rich and poor is still human and capable of suffering? People like that know no peace because they are always keeping score.

@nonheme That's just unkind, people have different circumstances, that's life!

“do fuck all as an 'artist'”
what do you mean exactly by this @Gothambutnotahamster ?
I’m curious, if it pays the bills and functions in that respect as every other job does why do you assume it is simply a matter of ‘doing fuck all?’.
Not just in the op’s case but in general, do you consider all artists just sit around doing ‘fuck all’, musicians, performers, etc etc? Where do you believe art comes from if all the artists are doing fuck all?

You sound very middle class. Curious to know why it matters so much though?

OP's first sentence is 'I'm fully aware this doesn't matter'.

Yes, it was a feeble joke.

I'm also one who was the first to go to university and whose dad was born in a council house. There were absolutely people in society who were worse off than us (as well as a seemingly larger number of people who were better off) but my upbringing was culturally working class. This caused no end of problems when I was at university and my resentful parents forced me to work to the detriment of my studies, while the dons made no allowance for this and my 100% public school course mates shunned me totally for being "common". So I'll damn well call myself WC if I want to as I've had enough sh*t in my life as a result of actually being WC. In reality, I don't want that label hung on me as I don't associate it with anything positive (YMMV of course).

Just as I can call myself WC because I've lived it, the OP can call herself WC if she wants because she's living it now, at least as far as her rented housing and gig work situation goes. She is right to prefer "precariat" as that is a more precise term and not as culturally loaded with 20th century class markers which may or not be relevant now.

Class to me is based on your upbringing, not how much you earn. I don't think you can change what class you are, it's something that is ingrained throughout childhood.

If Prince William decided he didn't want to be king and went to work at Tesco he wouldn't suddenly become working class.

You can describe yourself how you want but I would not consider you working class.

I always thought that "underclass" meant people on the margins of society who are not active in the official economy - benefit claimants basically. I agree that this is divisive as well as just plain pejorative, and drives a largely imaginary wedge between working and non-working members of the precariat. It obviously suits the powers that be to have all the insecurely renting, exploitatively employed and/or benefit claiming classes fighting among themselves like rats in a sack over who is more "privileged". The good news is that it's no longer taboo to say so, as an ever larger segment of society finds themselves getting screwed over by neoliberal policies.

You had the luxury of pursuing a passion. You’re not well off or rooted to one particular home, but that’s through choice.

Entirely middle class.

I think this is an interesting discussion. When it comes up on MN it always makes me think the class system doesn't apply anymore - I certainly don't know where my family fit in.

I strongly agree with a previous poster that whilst you likely still are MC, had you had children, they would probably be WC. I don't think your current financial position has dropped your class, but it definitely would have done so for your DC as they couldn't have the MC upbringing that your parents gave you.

That said, we will never know as you might have changed occupation if you had children and you may have bought a home, your life might be completely different. As it stands, it sounds like you have a wonderful life.

Thanks for an interesting discussion anyway.

It all sounds terribly complicated

It is. It defies analysis. Yet here we all are. 😂

This is a joke, right?

Total wind up