To consider myself working class?

[TheCatsKnickers]

I'm fully aware that it doesn't matter, but for the sake of argument - basically an ongoing debate with friend who insists I am middle class - which of us would be correct?

My background:
Dad probs upper working, good job but no higher education, bought our house and subsequent houses without mortgage. Mum from educated family but was SAHM. Grew up in MC area and schools, kept horses but more rough and tumble than 'posh'. Had a few years off too travel and have fun in late teens largely funded by parents, then went to uni late and studied fine art.
This, according to my friend cements me as MC.

The present day:
Followed my passion and became a painter. Didn't want to marry or have children so chose to rent. Preferred this as could move around and experience different places. Bit of a free spirit, but had to accept some financial insecurity for the pleasure! Am now in 40's and still similar, very content with long term DP but, I presume, not typical for many my age.
I have a decent 5 figure sum in savings although we received only a smallish inheritance due to both parents needing care in old age (they had also given their second property to an aunt and uncle who developed health issues in later life).
My income is somewhat fluid and would possibly terrify some, but I have intermittently earned very, very well and often receive high payments for my work (anywhere from £200 to £1k per commission or piece), but some months are quite the opposite.
So my lifestyle is not standard and has some financial insecurity, but I made my own choices.
Therefore, since I don't own a home or have a private pension I perceive my status to be 'working class', regardless of my background privileges and lifestyle. My friend argues not!

Which of us is correct?

Another thing OP. Your occupation is by choice as is you choosing to rent. Choice is a luxury which you have but some may not. Your dad buying your aunt a house is pretty unusual too.

@Thatladdo excellent saying not heard that one before!

"Completely disagree.all working class people DO struggle."

The working class builders and plumbers I know aren't struggling. Or are you saying that anyone who earns good money is no longer working class?

I’m finding this thread enlightening not least because of the assumption held by so many that being a painter isn’t a real job, it’s illuminating.
I’m working class (proper style 🤣), I’m also an artist, it’s my only job and the one that pays for the roof over my head. It’s full on work, relentlessly time consuming.
It’s a good job that I have some sort of past social disadvantage to draw upon, because having fought through the bit where they said painting was dead, then the bit where all the major British artists were public school boys , then the bit where I was a mother of young kids (totally not accommodated by the art world until recently), I came out the other side ready to bounce back with a vengeance. Lo and behold as a white feminist woman in my forties I’m now a terf , a white lens and a Karen 🤔

I'm aware of many people who are essentially WC, have a good home life and don't wish to change that status. They are not struggling. I do think that essentially most people in poverty likely come from WC (for example less inherited security), but it by no means guarantees struggle. Perhaps compared to the upper MC in contrast, yes.

How would you define the struggle of a working family with 2 children, dad a plumber and mum a care worker? If they can afford a nice home and enjoy their life, are they no longer WC?

Hey there!
But what is a white lens?

Er, what the actual..? You cannot be serious? There is literally nothing about your situation, past or present, that describes anything near the reality of being working class. And, by the way, your father was not "upper working class" if he bought a house, especially if he bought a house without a mortgage. Man. Your post has totally and utterly baffled me.

Class in the UK, as the OP states correctly, is not black and white. You can't point to any one marker and say that it defines categorically what class you belong to.

So, I agree with the OP that class isn't directly equated with income. Not all working class people struggle financially - at all. You can be rich and working class (although your children almost certainly won't be.)

Neither is it necessarily linked to education or language. You can be a university professor and proudly and stubbornly working class (although university is often one of the major ways people move from class to class.)

However, the OP has already demonstrated more than enough class markers to clearly identify her as middle class. The horses. The houses. The inheritance etc.

So her use of whomever is an additional marker of her middle class status, not a dig or an insult. Its only passive aggressive if you consider being called middle class as an insult. I don't. I'm middle class.

I am a bit confused about the horse thing. We knew a lot of WC horse owners. It was hard graft but we all mucked in, if you'll pardon the expression. It wasn't exactly international velvet

In conclusion I agree that my background is not wc, I never thought it was, but then I have never felt a belonging to a class personally. My family were a bit odd.

Remember, my OP was concerning a quip from a friend, he judged my status as MC due to background, and I felt that my present life was less secure financially, hence my guess at precariat. Perhaps I ought to have stressed that (precariat) instead of 'working class'.

This HAS to be a piss take, surely?! A semi-detached???!!!!

There's an upper working class? I did not know that.

Thank you.
I never knew what to think of my family when young, we were very mixed, with tentacles in management and some in farming, mining, floristry, low key theatre (in a WC area) and whatnot. It never seemed stereotypically MC to me, yet not particularly WC either. The schooling and advantages definitely were MC though.

The things people choose to stealth boast about. Boring.

Having a few funded years off gallivanting before studying art?

Middle class.

Why is it important to you to consider yourself working class?

Having read the entire thread, I have come to the conclusion that this must be a wind up. The OP actually used the word "befuddles". Horses? Semi-detached? Family-funded gap year(s), small inheritance...I mean, how can this not be a wind up?

I will give you this, OP, it has really made me laugh tonight.

In the 70s and 80s 10-20% of young ppl went to university. Blair doubled that and back in the 2000s tuition fees were very low or were paid by the state. Many WC young ppl went to university for the first time. This affects lifestyle, wages, jobs etc. but do you suddenly become MC? I don’t think so. It’s not that simple.

@ExhaustedMuch followed by OP knowing what class her mate is because she grew up in a council house. The irony 🤣

My apologies if you’re joking, I’m knackered and it’s not quite clear to my fuzzy brain, but I’m pretty sure she’s calling her hon as in honey, not hon as in the right honourable…

I don’t think it’s a case of gate keeping the WC label. I think it’s more that a lot of us grew up without a pot to pee in, so to have someone who lived a very comfortable, very middle class life come along and claim to be one of us is pretty fucking insulting. All that middle class privilege and not a clue how much choice they’ve had. And I’m well aware that being working class doesn’t mean you’re poor. But someone who is WC who has done well for themselves is not an insult.

I’ve no idea why so many of you are desperate to claim that you’re working class because your dad once lived on a council estate and you were the first in your family to go to university. You are what you are. Just embrace it.

Why is it important to you to consider yourself working class?

Im not sure where I said it was?
I have explained the intention of my OP, can't do more than that.

Some really savage responses on this thread. It's like Russian Roulette on here!

I think a lot of us in the UK don't see ourselves as in either camp, but that is likely just personal bias. I don't know. I certainly don't feel that my life since leaving home identifies with either WC or MC. And of course it doesn't matter.

I have to admit though, whilst I did have a decent security blanket for decades, the death of my parents has shaken things about quite a bit. I am very much an asshole for not having had the fortitude to consider the long term implications of my chosen career. I love it very much, and never regret pursuing it, but I am definitely going to struggle from now on - unless I have some very good luck!

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Well if you looked after the horses yourselves then...wait nope still middle class. I had less opportunity than you growing up and I'm still MC. Nothing wrong with it, but no you're not working class 😂

You've used the word 'precariat' several times. That settles it beyond any doubt as far as I'm concerned. 😂

You are solidly middle class. Sorry if that's a disappointment!

@TheCatsKnickers "You can't point to any one marker and say that it defines categorically what class you belong to." You can, actually! What do you call the thing you pee into? Do you have a couch or a sofa? When do you eat dinner? To start with....🤣