People looking after children while wfh

[paws732]

My company operates mainly remotely, so we mostly work from home with occasional office days. We have a lot of Teams meetings for connectivity.

With the summer holidays, I have had meeting with a lot of colleagues who have their children sitting on their laps during the meetings. These children range from 5-8, and they are not behaving themselves either. One child kept putting things on their mum's head, and another was having a tantrum about being bored.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be looking after children while wfh, even if it's the school holidays? I feel it will eventually spoil wfh arrangements for everyone, as employers will not tolerate this is many companies.

Mine are 12 and 13, and on days I’m out at a meeting they are home alone. I don’t have any choice but to WFH at the moment (office shut) so it’s me working in their home - not me working without childcare. While I think our policy is you need childcare for primary age children, they’re probably more disruptive than a pair of well behaved 10 year olds.

We do use a mixture of childcare and grandma but not every day. Very hard to find holiday clubs for 13 year olds, we use one that runs to age 15 but it’s only 3 days a week and only 4 weeks of our nearly-7 week holiday.

As a manager I would, hypocritically, be having words about someone with a younger child on their lap in a meeting. And someone babysitting a baby grandchild whilst on training (a PP mentioned) would be a warning.

I don't really like it either. It feels like one of those things which should make work more accessible for women but actually means a lot feel even more expectation to work and provide childcare at the same time, meaning both are done poorly.

I agree with this. And like others have said, most of the time it seems that the kids are with mum whilst she WFH. It’s much rarer to see men with children on their laps in Teams calls.

Just another example of women being expected to do it all whilst men carry on like they always have!

I sometimes have my 7 year old in the background from 9-10 and 3-5 as I can’t always find holiday clubs that last the full day. I try to avoid it though. I don’t think it makes me a great parent and I feel bad for her being shunted off with a book (or even worse an iPad).

I was on the phone to 4 , yes FOUR different people yesterday as I can't load the banking app. That is all . Loading a banking app!!. At least 2 of those were WFH i know this because of background noise . Its totally unacceptable and due to this complete incompetence I've cancelled my credit card and closed the account only having the CC for 2 weeks..
Do the job you're bloody paid for !

This would never have happened pre-pandemic but because of necessity during lockdown people think it’s ok now. I have one of my team who has his two primary school kids at home every holiday and during term time collects them at 3 to bring them home.

I raised with HR and their view was to manage via performance management if performance became an issue so clearly it’s deemed acceptable.

This 👆

The only way childcare and working from home are compatible is if someone else does the childcare while the parent works from home. As a manager, I would be calling people back to the office if this happened regularly, mainly as the parent would need to work longer to compensate for being interrupted. This would eventually lead to burn out, and then the parent is no good to either their employer or their family.

I was on the phone to someone from our IT company and I couldn't even hear him due to his child screaming in the background. He kept having to leave the call to address it, and then left altogether and said he would sort my problem out later.

I will have to do this for 4 days with my 2 year old this year because the nursery is closed. Have booked my neighbour to babysit for important calls. On others will just turn video off. Work will have to be done and is done as always. I log in late evenings and work whilst others chill out. The best work ideas come to me out of nowhere when out and about anyway and I work for large corporation.

I do it. And not just in the school holidays .
My son has addional needs and very restricted access to childcare due to the crap system and recent ALN act here in Wales cutting all support for ALN kids.

It's incredibly hard.
Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

As for the mainstream population then I don't blame them
What honestly are we supposed to do?
Spend £500 a week on holiday clubs?

The system needs to change and employers need to be more family friendly if they are to retain staff.

Luckily my employer is OK about it

For those saying, well if you were in the office what did you do before for childcare. Holidays clubs since COVID have rocketed, most clubs are £28-£50 per day, if you have two children that’s a fortune. Plus cost of living crisis. If people are getting the work done, leave them alone.

Pre Covid that’s what people did. Paid for holiday clubs. That’s what you factor in when having children if no family nearby. I paid for childcare every school holiday. It wouldn’t be fair to my children sitting around bored whilst I worked or to my employer. People are taking it too far now and giving WFH a bad name. Now and again is ok, every day if children are screaming or making a noise in the background isn’t ok.

There's 💯 no way my son would cope in a holiday club due to his addional needs .

Back when my mother was a child in the Hebrides, the mothers used to take the children peat cutting with them...

Nowadays... could you imagine if a checkout assistant had their child with them? Or the train driver had their child in the cab or day? Children waiting in the fire engine?

Yanbu. Dp has a colleague who looks after his toddler all the time while wfh and its really bloody annoying. We also have a toddler and we bend over backwards to work around childcare so it feels totally unfair. Dp also ends up picking up his slack regularly. He has been pulled up on it by managers but just carries on.

Additional needs is different. A colleague had a child with additional needs and she received a certain number of free days per year, not enough but she used some of his DLA money to fund more. Luckily she had her mum there to help, no way she could have got her job done with him around. If she didn’t have family to help maybe she would have had to reconsider the job she had and find work in the evenings / weekend around her partner. She wouldn’t have expected colleagues to pick up the slack whilst she ‘wfh’ looking after him too.

It really is unacceptable below school age at least. Obviously for teenagers it's generally fine, there's a sliding scale as to when it becomes acceptable and much depends on the individual child. But there is no way any child below school age can be looked after whilst the carer is also doing an honest day's work. Obviously it's not what people want to hear, but the lack of honesty about this is detrimental to the whole debate.

I have a 1 and 3 year old and even I agree this isn't ok.

Both my children are in childcare for the hours we work and during emergencies we either use leave or occasionally ask family to help.

I have colleagues who don't do the same. Recently I was on a call with a colleague who's 3 year old was wandering about in the background naked (she's potty training). Just completely inappropriate. I do worry these people will ruin it for others.

My boss has always sAid she doesn't mind what happens as long as she doesn't know, ie she shouldn't be able to see children or see workload suffering. I know I can't work effectively with 2 toddlers at home hence they are in childcare

How are you able to get your job done efficiently if you are looking after a child with additional needs at the same time? What sort of job do you do?

Genuinely interested if you are making it work. Sometimes I don't even have time to make a tea or go to the loo between meetings and tasks.

I fought hard to get one day a week wfh available for those who chose to do so in my team, and to overcome the assumptions that those doing it would take advantage and not pull their weight. In fact, due to the nature of our work, we were able to show benefits not just to the individuals but also to the team on site. It was accepted as a really positive change for all.

But then it became apparent that one individual was using their wfh day for childcare during school holidays. It caused so much resentment from those who were paying for childcare on their wfh days and from the team in general who could see that the person at home was not working as effectively as they were in term time.

It's a beach of our contact to have caring responsibilities while wfh so for us it's clear that if you wouldn't leave your child home alone then you shouldn't be wfh while they're there. I don't believe it should ever just be down to the individual to decide if it's acceptable; they should be transparent with their work about what they intend to do and have it agreed if appropriate.

This individual was reprimanded and now has to provide evidence of childcare, but the damage it's done to the perception of wfh within our department can't be underestimated. It makes me so angry that the actions of one person has made it harder for everyone else.

I WFH with my eldest 1-2 days a week in the holidays. He has SEN and can't go to any of the local holiday clubs (which generally only run 9-3 and are miles away anyway, so not super useful). His dad also does a day or so WFH and grandparents help us a bit, plus we have each booked a fair bit of annual leave so it's not all watching us WFH.

For me, WFH with a child around is an agreed arrangement (carer's passport) with my employer - I don't think they love it, but the pay is crap, my job is very niche and they agree that I shouldn't be forced out of the workforce just for having a child with SEN. Sometimes I have to catch up work in the evenings, but not loads. It gets reviewed regularly, if performance suffered it would change.

I don't have loads of meetings, but DS is never allowed onscreen during Teams calls and knows not to make loads of noise. I always set him up with an activity beforehand.

I have DS4 and DS7 at home while wfh but I don't have a role when I have to be on all day. I don't have many video calls, but if I do have a video call, I make sure they are not present. It is true that at some points I do need to log on after hours.

All my work gets done and I am always responsive.

I am in the same boat - my colleague has a 1 year old who only goes to nursery in the afternoons, during term time. Trying to get a hold of her in the mornings or, like now, during the school holidays is something of a nightmare. Even worse at the moment because we are going through an insanely busy period which requires all my team to be working in the office most of the week.

Makes me feel that maybe I shouldn't have pushed so hard to put my baby into childcare full time from 7 months if it feels she can get away with it (I would have done anyway, no way can I work at home or concentrate with my DS running around like a mini tornado all day). Also doesn't help when there are comments like "oh, it's so nice when I'm on leave to take my child to the park and not worry about work" - um, it's core hours, you are supposed to be working. It's this attitude that gets me really pissed off.

Interestingly, my DH's work has a clear no childcare while working policy; and they are STRICT about it (also a VVV safety conscious employer so it fits) - however, they do have a bank of "emergency childcare leave" that employees can use. In some ways they're really far ahead of the times/curve and in other ways they're well behind.

It isn't the same for everyone. Some jobs are more formal or deal in confidentiality. Not all children are the same age or temperament. Not all employers are slavedrivers. Not all fathers are WOHP FT. It's impossible to compare situations.

It works well for me because: My DC are older, my job isn't full on, I have lots of down time. I don't have many phone calls or meetings. The MD has his little kids running around and is very family focused as long as the work is getting done, which it is. I have an office room where I can go and work in peace without disturbing the house. My DH works shifts and is home most days. So for me, wfh whilst having my lazy teen and tween around is not a problem, they are often playing out with friends anyway. When they were little however, I was in an office and they were at nursery. I was expected to work and homeschool through covid, no furlough for me. I don't take the piss and my work is always done.

Trying to concentrate on a full on job with confidentiality issues or constant meetings or phone calls with young lively kids or kids with SEN single handedly is a different situation and is completely understandable why that wouldn't work at all.

I think it's fine if the kids are teens /tweens and don't need your supervision and attention. It's very different to a toddler who is trying to kill themselves every 5 minutes and needs to be watched.

I once thought wfh was the ultimate goal for women with kids as it meant they could still earn while also being present for their kids! There are often posts on MN asking about wfh jobs when women realise (usually too late!) the cost of childcare or that school holidays of 13 weeks a year aren't going to work with their annual 6 weeks holiday entitlement etc.
This and the many fbk ads for MLM pyramid schemes to sell beauty products heralded as the ultimate wfh job etc etc
I don't think covid helped the matter as meant people had to have their kids at home while wfh and no doubt many took the mick.
Covid is long gone and we need people back at work not doing school runs, dog walks, pegging the washing out, nipping to Tesco etc etc. A friend of mine even jokes she has to get back to "wiggle the mouse"!
Sadly people no longer take genuine wfh jobs seriously anymore and see is as a luxury in which they can take liberties.