People looking after children while wfh

[paws732]

My company operates mainly remotely, so we mostly work from home with occasional office days. We have a lot of Teams meetings for connectivity.

With the summer holidays, I have had meeting with a lot of colleagues who have their children sitting on their laps during the meetings. These children range from 5-8, and they are not behaving themselves either. One child kept putting things on their mum's head, and another was having a tantrum about being bored.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be looking after children while wfh, even if it's the school holidays? I feel it will eventually spoil wfh arrangements for everyone, as employers will not tolerate this is many companies.

If it was fine during covid when they wanted us to work (essential role in finance - nursery closed), why not now? I wouldn't every day but I have occasionally

This is where I find it ridiculous that children under school age only get their 30 free hours during term time! Do they honestly think working parents only work term time?? Those that work should get it during the school holidays too… at least then they’d have a few days of WFH to cram in as much work as possible.

Our nursery splits them over 51 weeks of the year. It means we only get about 20 hours per week in reality but it continues over the holidays. Though obviously it's still not free as we pay about £25 on the 'free days' for food etc.

But surely you can see that a precedent is being created that you could benefit from? Ask for it as part of a flexible working request or change jobs to make it happen. And thank those parents who have are pushing through all this negativity and brick throwing to try and show there’s another way to work that could benefit more people than just themselves.

I’ll confess - I WFH full time and I don’t always have my kids (6 & 10) in holiday club.

My plan is:
Holiday club 1-2 days a week
OH minds them 2 days then he works on weekends (SE) to make up for it
If I have no meetings I might take them to a soft play and work from there while they play.
Otherwise they play while I work the other 1-2 days

Ill barely see my 10yo except when she wants food.
6yo demands more attention but can play alone or with his sister for long enough

If I have a meeting I either get OH to watch them or they are under strict instructions to not bother me at all. I’d never have them on my lap for a Teams meeting. It’s also rife in the organisation (as in having children on Teams calls) I work for but I figure if I’m not part of it I can never get told off for it.

And thank those parents who have are pushing through all this negativity and brick throwing to try and show there’s another way to work that could benefit more people than just themselves.

Parents wfh with young kids are hardly the suffragettes, for goodness sake.

Children in the 5-8 age range need to be in child care in the summer. That typically means holiday clubs.

Those are often shorter than the workday so a bit of time at the beginning or end of the day with the children around is reasonable. Having been distracted/entertained all day, they are more likely to behave and screen time can be used if needed.

I wonder how many people who think it's OK to do this would think it's acceptable in other jobs that aren't at home? I don't really understand why the fact being at home means it's totally fine? People say they easily get their work done with a toddler/ child etc. A doctor might be able to do a consultation (both in person or on the phone/zoom) with their toddler playing in the corner of the room/ older child reading but would that make it OK? I don't really want my doctors consultation interrupted by a child anymore than I want a phone call to my bank or a meeting with a colleague interrupted.
I recently had a zoom meeting with a private specialist doctor. If she had popped up on screen with a small child on her lap I would have immediately disconnected and asked for my money back.

I know I'll be slated for my opinion, but I don't care.
I was a working single mum when my DC were growing up. I went to the office 5 days a week and the DC were either at nursery, school, wraparound or holiday cover (depending on their ages and time of year).
I wasn't able to wfh and I definitely wouldn't have wanted to have my DC under my feet whilst trying to get my work done, nor would I have expected my employer to think that it would be ok, so I had to fund all cover outside school.
Employers pay you to do a job. Would they be happy with you taking your DC into the office with you? I doubt it, therefore, you shouldn't be trying to combine looking after your DC with doing the job you're being paid to do.
At the beginning of September each year, I would calculate how much a whole year's fees would be, including all school holidays. I then divided the total by 12 and paid that amount every month. It meant I was overpaying every month right the way through from September to June, but I still paid the same amount during July and August, which are the two months that the biggest chunk of fees actually fell due.
My care providers were happy with this arrangement because they were gaining interest on my overpayment all year round and knew that I wouldn't be dropping it on them that I was struggling to find the fees during the summer.
Yes, my youngest finished with all this childcare about 15 years ago, but it was still a massive chunk of my income.
I believe people should look at the cost of childcare BEFORE they even think about having children, these costs are for the parents to cover, and they shouldn't be looking to the state (other taxpayers) to pay for them (except in extreme extenuating circumstances).

But if they are so sick they can’t go to school, how can the cope in your office? Infecting others too? Surely they should be at school or at home in bed/on the sofa.

Because during COVID you had no choice and key workers had school places for a reason.

I work in a pharmacy, during COVID I couldn't take DD to work with me and she wasn't in school so my options were to send her to school on a keyworker place or send her to live full time with her dad (ExDH and I split custody 50/50) ... She went to stay with her dad because he could WFH and as she was old enough to be left to get on with her work (she was Yr 6 in the first lockdown) but if she had been younger then she would have been going to school.

During COVID everything shut down so people had no choice but to WFH with children around but employers as well as clients all understood that essential roles were going to be impacted by COVID disruption as they didn't have any choice in the matter as you literally couldn't send your children elsewhere, and so people were understanding if standards were lower as we were all muddling through as best we could. Now you have options, if you choose not to take them then the consequence of that decision should fall on you, not on your employer.

I'm a parent of 3 under age 6 - single parent with a professional job. - I think it's taking the piss to do it in school Holidays to avoid paying for childcare. One offs / emergencies etc is fine or if your employer has core hours that you can then make up time around is fine but the rest of the time is just plain entitled and arrogant

It was anything but fine during covid, what it was was unavoidable due to lockdown. Now we have childcare again.

I think covid has bought many changes about and this is one of them. Whilst I don't think it's sensible, effective for work, (or safe) to have smaller children at home, I do question whether an older child could be at home some days.

As before, they were fine with it during the pandemic although it was dangerous, she was 2.5yrs, distracting, and made me ineffective. They didn't care then!

Disquietintheranks I should have been furloughed but that didn't suit their needs at the time.

Agreed. In fact by taking the piss and having young children at home while they 'work' they are actively harming things for others (e.g many disabled people) who could really do with employers not retreating from hybrid workinf

Mumsnet completely misses the point on this. The question as a manager is ‘does this person deliver according to their goals?’

If the answer is yes then great no then it isn’t. The weakest team members aren’t usually the mums juggling kids. They are normally in a role below their capability in my experience as a manager. Just saying …..

Surely it's about finding a balance that's fair to the children and the employer. Pre covid costs of childcare was accepted as necessary now its like people think they're entitled to as much flex as they want.
Employers pay staff for their time and attention not for that effort to be diluted because employees choose to not put childcare in place.
Saying that I think my kids will be home 1 day in holidays while dh and I wfh - otherwise they're in.clubs or with family or we have leave. On the days we both working I know they'd just watch tv or other screens until their eyes fell out that's not what I want for them

YANBU. Kids in meetings is highky unprofessional. People are being paid to work, and should be spending the hours they are paid for working, not looking after their kids. If covid hadn't happened most would still be in offices and would have to make childcare arrangements. They're just not wanting to pay for childcare and want the best of both worlds- getting paid while looking after their kids

As someone who pays for Childcare, or arranges family to support for the 35 Hours I work this gets my goat..

I personally do no or very little work if needed when I have my child, he is 2 and still does a 2-3 hour nap luckily. I have flexible hours so I work 4am to 8.30/9 when my husband starts work, then I restart when he naps around 12 and then my husband will lunch when he wakes up and by the time that is done I have forfilled my hours. The only time I do an occasional but of work with my child awake is if someone requires something done urgently but this is usually only a 10-20min thing at most.

This way my work isn't interupted and I can concentrate when needed etc. As he gets older and goes to school I will adapt my hours to be more sociable with the school day but in holidays would look to do early hours again and or evenings, or do half days so I am not trying to do both working and parenting, as you can't do both like that. Maybe an occasional strike or inset day where you can plan tasks for the kids to get on with on their own while you work in advance but not for a 6 week holiday.

It’s between the employer and the employer. But this is the reason where my dh works has stopped anyone working from home.

It’s in our wfh policy that we can’t wfh while looking after children. There’s an exception for emergencies, but that must be agreed with a manager. In practice, a child at home quietly watching tv or whatever would fly under the radar but any of us can be asked to go in at any time for a meeting or if systems fail. If that should happen and you’ve suddenly got a child to palm off somewhere else before you go in then that’s going to be a problem. Sounds like this hasn’t been made clear by your employer if people are blatantly showing off the fact that they’re babysitting while they’re supposed to be working. That sort of thing will breed resentment because of course it will impact on their working day.

No, YANBU. It’s just not on.

my children were 10 and 13 at the start of Covid and so are used to me wfh - which I now do permanently- and are old enough not to really need supervision. I do benefit in the sense that my 13 year old, who has adhd and a below age maturity level, is too old for a lot of holiday clubs but I wouldn’t be comfortable leaving him alone 5 days a week. However, I have as much interaction with him in the course of a day as I would with another adult who was also working from home. I’d also be unhappy about them being on camera.

I think it’s ok occasionally, as long as you can still work. As a manager I would have no problem with a child being present here and there, as long as it wasn’t disruptive.

I appreciate not everyone has family help, childcare can be prohibitively expensive and annual leave doesn’t cover all of the school holidays.

However, once work begins to suffer, or it’s clear there are no other arrangements in place at all I would become concerned.

Absolutely not. And no, it wasn’t fine during Covid which is why we used furlough (enhanced) for our working parents. We have a duty of care to ensure the safety of our team. How on earth can you do your job properly and ensure your child’s welfare, particularly when they are young.