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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be able to expect my kids to play safely in our own back garden?

184 replies

RedJools · 27/02/2008 14:59

Grrr! We have a back garden, which backs onto woodland which we also own. It is lovely and, I thought, a great place for our kids, as I grew up in the house next door to this, and loved the outdoor space as a child. At the moment dd1 and dd2 have part of the garden almost completely fenced off to play in. They are 4 and 2.5. We also have 2 rabbits in a big run, that the kids love to play with, sandpits, chutes a playhouse etc. It's not a huge garden, although we have a lot of space which I hope eventually to turn into more garden for them to play in. So far so good.

Unfortunately, some idiot who lives way over the other side of our woods has a Japanese Akita, a Rottweiler and a Staffie x, which he seems to make no attempt to keep in. They have burst their way into our garden and attempted to kill our rabbits, causing huge damage to the run and garden.Having caught them in the garden 4 times, we informed the police, who told us they can't do anything unless we know whose dogs they are. (From this logic, don't bother telling the police if your house gets burgled, unless you know who did it) So we found out who owned the dogs, which wasn't hard, as it turns out they have been reported to the police several times by other neighbours and belong to the local hard-cases (drug-runners, murderers etc). Having passed this information on to the police, I was told there is nothing we can do unless we can prove they are his dogs! (So even if you find out who burgled your house, don't bother going to the police until you have detailed your fingerprint evidence and run your DNA samples)

I am not frightened of dogs. I am a vet with 12 years experience, and as such I do know a bit about these breeds. Enough to know they should be treated with caution, and never out without an owner on their own, never mind in a pack! Amongst the useful suggestions the police gave me were:
Fence off all our ground (would only cost about £2000-£3000, no problem!!!!)
Put poison down- I have 3 small children and 2 dogs of our own! Besides "is that legal?" "Oh, er, not sure!"
Phone the dog warden- he came 2d later!!
Check and see if the owners name was on the collar- yeah, as its standing growling at me with its mates, I'll just casually sashay up to it and grab it by the collar...
I've taken photos and we finally scraped together enough money to reinforce the fence and make it higher. Was just starting to relax, even though I know the beasts are still crashing about in our woods/ driveway, until I saw the bloody rottie sauntering past my kitchen window today, round my front garden, through the front gate and round the back again!! I saw red and chased it, (breaking my good mop in the process-grr!), and DH has had to give up his afternoon off to get stuff to block up the bit beside the front gate now!! Its like living in Fort Knox, and I STILL don't feel safe letting my kids out the back. Yes, I am usually out there with them, but even if I was, and they were playing with the rabbits would I be quick enough if these dogs came back?

I KNOW their owners might say they are "big softies" (heard that sooo many times, usually before a dog goes for my face!) but surely they should not be roaming unsupervised in a street where kids often kick a football/ ride bikes/ walk smaller dogs? In fact, I know they shouldn't. the police say they have spoken to the owner, but that is all they can do. I don't want to get involved with these people if I can help it- by all accounts they are nasty and dangerous, and my dh is away quite a lot. I asked the police to stress to the owners that they were going into gardens where there were small children, but that doesn't seem to have pricked their conscience. I could understand the dogs escaping once, or even twice, but over the last year they have been in my garden about 12 times! Obviously I don't want to hurt the dogs, as a vet, and , more importantly, for fear of retribution!! But I am getting so angry now- for once even the rottie was scared of me today, although possibly because it didn't have the others with it!

Any ideas??

OP posts:
southeastastra · 27/02/2008 16:57

yes maybe bad idea. you may be able to get some sort of trap though. aw feel for your rabbits.

PollyPentapeptide · 27/02/2008 16:57

I really do sympathise. Our vets fees have been huge and I would consider a private prosecution (to recoup my costs) but that leaves us in a very vulnerable situation as these people would know who we were and we live literally just rund the corner from them.

We also had to cancel a holiday because the dog was so badly injured that we couldn't put him into kennels.

Even our driveway isn't safe anymore because he walks the dog down the footpath right alongside and I simply don't trust him or the dog. The owner gets a perverse enjoyment out of seeing his dog injure other animals.

What the hell do you do with peole like that?

RedJools · 27/02/2008 16:58

Good question!! Phone the police and say- "here you go!" and go make myself a coffee!!

I've considered getting a dog catcher (stick with noose on the end), which would be fine if there was just the one, but not keen on wrestling with a rottweiler while its Japaneses Akita mate looks on!

OP posts:
Chequers · 27/02/2008 17:00

Message withdrawn

Chequers · 27/02/2008 17:00

Message withdrawn

Kathyis6incheshigh · 27/02/2008 17:00

And what would the police do then? I mean, would they just pop it in the van, take it back round to its owners and say 'Here you go, mind you don't do it again' (which they will) or would it go into a pound and they put a prosecution in process?

RedJools · 27/02/2008 17:00

PPP- huge sympathies. At least the fuckwitts who own these beasts live quite a bit away from us, and are probably blissfully ignorant of us. I keep thinking that people like that must have more and bigger enemies than you or I, and hopefully they'll end up moving on or be found floating face-down in the local pond!! I still have some faith in karma!

OP posts:
RedJools · 27/02/2008 17:03

KI6IH- I know, that's the bugger! They would probably take it to the pound, I think- after all I can't PROVE they are his dogs, can I. There must be LOTS of people with this exact pack of aggressive dogs... They'd have to pay £50 to get it out of the pound, but whether that would phase them or not, I don't know.

OP posts:
BITCAT · 27/02/2008 17:04

This is the problem in this country is that the authorities act after an incident and not before..too late once a child has been injured or worse!! I would be very tempted to take action myself and take the law into my own hands!! As reasonable force to protect yourself, your property and your family is allowed...i would ring the local council next time..surely they can remove the dogs and take them to the kennels and then wait for owners to come collect them..then they would know whose dogs it is and take some action!!!

Kathyis6incheshigh · 27/02/2008 17:07

It sounds like that might be a good option if it's possible though - if it went to the pound it would hopefully put the wind up them about letting it out in future, but maybe wouldn't result in vindictive revenge against you the way poisoning would (if they worked out who'd done it).

beaniesteve · 27/02/2008 17:07

I cannot believe that people are talking about poisoning animals which have not doen any wrong. What a cowardly way to go about things. At the very least be adult enough to have a word with the owners about boundaries. if you cannot bring yourself to do that then build a fence. Surely it's worth it to protect your children, even if it is a pain!

cestlavie · 27/02/2008 17:08

Following on from the lion idea, would it be possible to make a small, but incredibly highly charged electric fence. Nothing too expensive, just a couple of hundred yards of highly conductive wire from Homebase, a few cheap metal poles, a fork, a plug socket and voila.

"Okay, honey, you can let the kids out again now!"

BabiesEverywhere · 27/02/2008 17:09

We use to trap feral cats using this trap, the same site has many different sized ones.

Get them rehomed, they will end up inside with loving families with any luck.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 27/02/2008 17:09

I think 'trying to get into the hutch to kill someone's rabbits' does count as doing wrong.
I can't believe the sentimentality about dogs on this thread - everyone who thinks it is so wrong to poison the dog is vegetarian or would never eat battery-farmed pork, I suppose

BabiesEverywhere · 27/02/2008 17:11

I also disagree with the poisioning comments, it is not the dogs fault that they are left to run wild in a pack. Seperated in new homes with responsible dog friendly families, there is no reason that these dogs can't become better behaved.

BITCAT · 27/02/2008 17:16

cestlavie i like the idea..would certainly get the message eventually!! The point is beaniesteve is that they shouldn't have to shell out that sort of money, because of mindless idiots that do not look after there dogs properly and cannot keep them in their own yard and have you seen the sort of damage these dogs can do to a child!! I really don't know why anyone would want to keep those kind of dogs anyway and aren't some of them banned now anyway!!

RedJools · 27/02/2008 17:20

Beaniesteve- from what I have heard the owner of these dogs is a complete nutcase! the police have already had a word- no effect. Its not about being cowardly, but I really don't think I want myself, or my kids to be on this guy's RADAR, when the chances of him listening to me are next to zero. nIts hard to describe our property, and we have fenced it as much as we can, but the beauty of it is that we live in shared woodland, and we (the residents) don't have boundaries as such. It would literally cost thousands to put afence round our bit and we would need to fence halfway across a stream. Similarly with barbed wire- I wouldn't really want to harm the wildlife that live in the woods. DH is out there as we speak re-fencing. The dogs have behaved threateningly, tried to kill my rabbits and caused huge damage. Should I just wait until the day they come into the garden while my kids are playing with the rabbits? Would you? I don't want to poison the dogs- but not through sympathy with them! THere are hundreds of nice dogs get put to sleep every day, or get hit on roads, because of idiot owners- sad but true. These dogs WILL eventually get into trouble, one way or another. Even if a dog is not aggressive it could cause a road traffic accident by running out on the road, which could result in the death or injury of another person. Its simply not acceptable for tem to be running about on their own, as any reasonable owner who loves and values their dogs will tell you

OP posts:
Vacua · 27/02/2008 17:22

aren't some of what banned now? akitas and rottweilers?

OP: just wondering how you keep the rabbits safe from foxes if the garden is not dog proof, and how can you keep your own dogs in?

beaniesteve · 27/02/2008 17:23

"everyone who thinks it is so wrong to poison the dog is vegetarian or would never eat battery-farmed pork"

I'm not a vegetarian and I don't buy only organic free range meat. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to think a load of people suggesting someone poison a dog is right!

What would you do if you had a cat and someone poisoned it because it peed on their rose bushes? I know that the OP says they could have killed their rabbits but I would say that if she poisoned some dogs and someone found out it was her she could be prosecuted.

It's not sentimentality its suggesting to other adults that perhaps reasonable adult behaviour and responses should be excercised. There are many many things the OP can do to protect her children from teh percieved danger before resorting to poisoning another persons animal.

to be honest I have found the snobbery displayed in this thread towards the dog Owners quite horrible so it really doesn't surprise me that so many people think resorting to Poison is an acceptable suggestion.

BITCAT · 27/02/2008 17:23

kathyis6incheshigh well said!! There is too much putting animal safety before our own and that of children!! If i thort my children were in danger and i don't have the money to build fences or anything like that, then i would take any action to make sure my children were safe..if that means poisoning them so be it!! My children will always come 1st and foremost and in any case shouldn't the owners of the dogs pay for the fence, it's them thats causing the problem!! Mindless yobs!!

beaniesteve · 27/02/2008 17:24

"I really don't know why anyone would want to keep those kind of dogs anyway and aren't some of them banned now anyway!!"

no.

And so another uninformed prejudice is exposed ...

Kathyis6incheshigh · 27/02/2008 17:30

Beanie - of course you can think whatever you like. I just find it really odd that people are upset by the idea of killing a dog which is at risk of killing another animal (or, God forbid, even a child) when they're quite happy to battery-farm and kill equally intelligent animals. Killing a cat for pissing on your roses would be vindictive and pointless, I agree, but this is about trying to stop something terrible happening.

beaniesteve · 27/02/2008 17:31

but ...

oh, I dunno.

There are lots of things I could do to 'stop something terrible happening' which would be wrong and premature.

I guess I just see things differently.

RedJools · 27/02/2008 17:33

Beaniesteve- I dont think you have read the OP correctly: the dog owners are KNOWN drug dealers, and one of them has been up for murder , twice!! I have been warned by several people NOT to even think about taking this family on!! Its not about snobbery, on my part, its about fear!

Vacua- the foxes never bother our bunnies. The hutch is fox-proof, so they don't seem to bother trying. i ahve seen foxes walk through our garden loads of times and they ignore the rabbit hutch! Our own dogs are never left out in the garden on their own- we take them walks through the woods occasionally, but usually take them longer walks at the local country park.

Somne breeds are banned, and rightly so. I love dogs as much as the next person (kinda goes with the job!), but there is a big difference between breeds. Yes, all dogs can nip/ bite, but its the difference in the outcome that is important. Few Jack Russells have killed children, although many have nipped. The power and strength of these dogs is not to be shrugged off lightly. They do have breed traits as well, that should be recognised and respected. In as much as you are I are not allowed to drive an armoured tank down the street, some breeds are banned, because it is thought few people will be able to control them satisfactorily

OP posts:
Vacua · 27/02/2008 17:33

Nobody really thinks it is ok to poison the dogs, the OP has already stated her own objections to it (danger to wildlife, own dogs and so on). I am a vegetarian so I am allowed to oppose that idea

Would like to know how she keeps her own dogs from getting out if these wayward ones can come in though?

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