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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be able to expect my kids to play safely in our own back garden?

184 replies

RedJools · 27/02/2008 14:59

Grrr! We have a back garden, which backs onto woodland which we also own. It is lovely and, I thought, a great place for our kids, as I grew up in the house next door to this, and loved the outdoor space as a child. At the moment dd1 and dd2 have part of the garden almost completely fenced off to play in. They are 4 and 2.5. We also have 2 rabbits in a big run, that the kids love to play with, sandpits, chutes a playhouse etc. It's not a huge garden, although we have a lot of space which I hope eventually to turn into more garden for them to play in. So far so good.

Unfortunately, some idiot who lives way over the other side of our woods has a Japanese Akita, a Rottweiler and a Staffie x, which he seems to make no attempt to keep in. They have burst their way into our garden and attempted to kill our rabbits, causing huge damage to the run and garden.Having caught them in the garden 4 times, we informed the police, who told us they can't do anything unless we know whose dogs they are. (From this logic, don't bother telling the police if your house gets burgled, unless you know who did it) So we found out who owned the dogs, which wasn't hard, as it turns out they have been reported to the police several times by other neighbours and belong to the local hard-cases (drug-runners, murderers etc). Having passed this information on to the police, I was told there is nothing we can do unless we can prove they are his dogs! (So even if you find out who burgled your house, don't bother going to the police until you have detailed your fingerprint evidence and run your DNA samples)

I am not frightened of dogs. I am a vet with 12 years experience, and as such I do know a bit about these breeds. Enough to know they should be treated with caution, and never out without an owner on their own, never mind in a pack! Amongst the useful suggestions the police gave me were:
Fence off all our ground (would only cost about £2000-£3000, no problem!!!!)
Put poison down- I have 3 small children and 2 dogs of our own! Besides "is that legal?" "Oh, er, not sure!"
Phone the dog warden- he came 2d later!!
Check and see if the owners name was on the collar- yeah, as its standing growling at me with its mates, I'll just casually sashay up to it and grab it by the collar...
I've taken photos and we finally scraped together enough money to reinforce the fence and make it higher. Was just starting to relax, even though I know the beasts are still crashing about in our woods/ driveway, until I saw the bloody rottie sauntering past my kitchen window today, round my front garden, through the front gate and round the back again!! I saw red and chased it, (breaking my good mop in the process-grr!), and DH has had to give up his afternoon off to get stuff to block up the bit beside the front gate now!! Its like living in Fort Knox, and I STILL don't feel safe letting my kids out the back. Yes, I am usually out there with them, but even if I was, and they were playing with the rabbits would I be quick enough if these dogs came back?

I KNOW their owners might say they are "big softies" (heard that sooo many times, usually before a dog goes for my face!) but surely they should not be roaming unsupervised in a street where kids often kick a football/ ride bikes/ walk smaller dogs? In fact, I know they shouldn't. the police say they have spoken to the owner, but that is all they can do. I don't want to get involved with these people if I can help it- by all accounts they are nasty and dangerous, and my dh is away quite a lot. I asked the police to stress to the owners that they were going into gardens where there were small children, but that doesn't seem to have pricked their conscience. I could understand the dogs escaping once, or even twice, but over the last year they have been in my garden about 12 times! Obviously I don't want to hurt the dogs, as a vet, and , more importantly, for fear of retribution!! But I am getting so angry now- for once even the rottie was scared of me today, although possibly because it didn't have the others with it!

Any ideas??

OP posts:
Carmenere · 27/02/2008 16:19

For the record i don't think you should poison the dogs, I think you should drug them and take them far away to be re-homed. Can you not administer a heavy sedative via some meat and then keep them in your garden til it takes effect?
Killing them would be wrong, it is the owners who are being irresponsible. the dogs are just being dogs.

Lauriefairycake · 27/02/2008 16:20

I think it is utterly wrong (and evil) to suggest poisoning. My problem is with the cunty owners, they are scum. Dogs are the responsibility of their owners.

Complain more/take out a private prosecution against them/fence off the part you reasonably can - if you have to put a gate in for the children to access the burn and the woods then you may have to suck it up.

Poisoning, utterly wrong imo.

kittywise · 27/02/2008 16:20

If you could poison them without being found, do so, bloody dogs grr
You could get an air rifle and shoot them? After all you would be protecting your children on your own property. I bloody would.

Tortington · 27/02/2008 16:23

you could give them laxatives

cestlavie · 27/02/2008 16:24

Could you hire a lion from somewhere? Imagine the look on the owners' faces when the lion trots round to theirs with half a rottweiler hanging out its mouth...

Medicine, taste of, your own...

RedJools · 27/02/2008 16:28

The difficulty with sedating them via food is that I would be prepared to bet these beasts wouldn't touch it. (Whereas my own stupid beagles would hoover it up!) and its difficult to get dosages right- a dog that is half-sedated is actually more dangerous than one which isn't, as it can suddenly leap into action having lulled you into a false sense of security- seen that happen a few times!

I know we have to suck it up and put in more fencing, but I still worry about the kids when they are in the driveway, or other kids in the street. It is a very child-friendly (private) road, and I know my 2 will want to go further afield than the fenced off bit of garden when they get a bit bigger.

I am actually too scared to prosecute them privately. Lots of different people have told me not to mess with these people, and my dh is in the navy, so away a lot- I don't want the house burnt to the ground over this, and they might just be crazy enough..!

Considering an anonymous letter to local paper, though, and writing to MP.

OP posts:
RedJools · 27/02/2008 16:28

cestlavie- love the lion idea!! You don't happen to have one, do you???

OP posts:
WallOfSilence · 27/02/2008 16:30

Call the local paper.

Get their journalist down.

You say you already have photographs... imagine a page with the photograph on & your little rabbits & your dd's worried little face......

"Worried residents report sightings of dangerous dogs"

Don't poison them though, that'd just be cruel.

Blueskythinker · 27/02/2008 16:31

Um, quite seriously, the lion thing has prompted me into remembering something - I think lion's pee is supposed to scare dogs. Is there a zoo nearby where you could get some. What about your vet chums, could any of them help?

tootiredtothink · 27/02/2008 16:32

This makes me soooo angry . You have done everything you possibly can to get help and no-one will help you - in this day and age when so many attacks happening on children are being publicised??? Of course you can't go to the papers as you would be named and from the sound of them you need to keep away from the owners!!! I know it probably goes against all you belive in but your beautiful children must come first - and no, i don't believe you could do much even if you were there with your little angels if the dogs got hold of one of them, and that doesn't bear thinking about does it? Do what you have to do to protect your children in my opinion. Good luck xx

PollyPentapeptide · 27/02/2008 16:32

Laurie, it took 18 months for local residents here to have a court order applied to the owners of a vicious dog. The owners then promptly ignored it and have been doing so ever since. In that timemore and more attacks happen on an almost weekly basis.

Of course poisoning is wrong for fucks sake but what the hell do you expect people to do when no one is prepared to help.

We are not talking about yappy dogs, or owners who allow their dogs to shit on the verge, we are talking about vicious, nasty and dangerous animals with equally nasty owners and a police force who refuse to intervene.

I am not proud of the fact that I would consider poisoning an animal, it is barbaric and cruel behavious at the very least and would also potentially put me at risk of prosecution. However, the police, the warden, the press and the MPS have not been able to help and we are literally banging our heads against a brick wall.

Katie3677 · 27/02/2008 16:32

I'm with Walkthedinosaur and southutsire, the press are a very effective way of bringing attention to things and will force the police to act. If you start by writing a letter to the Editor, I'm sure you will find that a number of other people in the area are having the same problem, and it will probably end up snowballing into a campaign. Good luck, I love dogs, but often have issues with owners.

clarinsgirl · 27/02/2008 16:33

Think it might be Lion poo that scares cats - not sure about wee or dogs

MadamePlatypus · 27/02/2008 16:35

When I was a student we lived next door to a Rottweiller who would jump over the fence, poo and stop me from going to the shed to get my bike. We thought about having a few sheep in the garden so that the neighbours could be prosecuted on the grounds of sheep worrying...

Could you contact the RSPCA? They aren't being responsible owners.

PollyPentapeptide · 27/02/2008 16:36

We had a very effective campaign running here, a local resident took it on and collected statements from over 20 dog walkers (12 of whom had suffered attacks on there own dogs and the remaining 8 who had been witnesses). The press also ran an article and this prompted more interest.

All of this happened after the court order had been issued (which the owners had ignored, so effectivley breaking the law on a daily basis anyway)

He's stiilout there there, off the lead and not muzzled.

We still have to avoid him and it effect us on a daily basis.

newgirl · 27/02/2008 16:37

I think wire fence into the wood area is best idea - ok its is expensive but it protects the kids from all kinds of things - i would be nervous about oddbods wandering past an open space

good for the rabbits too?

RedJools · 27/02/2008 16:40

I'm chuckling at the thought of going to the zoo and asking for some lion poo!! It just might work...

And deffo going to write to local paper- if just to let off steam and warn others in the area!

the police really have been hopeless! Conversation last time I phoned:
"hello, I want to report a dangerous dog in my garden, trying to kill my rabbits"
"You need to phone the Dog Warden"
"It's 6.30pm, will the dog warden be available?"
" Well I don't know!"
"In that case, could you make a report and send someone round?"
"(sigh) What kind of dog is it?"
"It's a rottweiler"
"Is it a big dog or a small dog?"
"It's big- it's a rottweiler. I am a vet, and I know it is a rottweiler. It is in my garden right now, and the police said last time to phone them straight away so they might see it/ catch it"
"What colour is it?"
"ITS ROTTWEILER COLOURED! Can you send someone out please!"
"There's no need to get like that with me. I need some more details..."

By the time the police came round, 2hours later and said, "see if we could just catch it.." I had to bite my tongue to say nothing!

OP posts:
PollyPentapeptide · 27/02/2008 16:44

It's ridculous though isn't it. The owners are breaking the law - how difficult can it be.

But no, instead you have to think about surrounding your home with barbed wire and lion poo, carrying a tranquilser dart with you and planning a moonlight sorty out of the county to foist the vicious bastards off onto someone else!

Which is why I find myself favouring the poison method (I seriously do!)

mollymawk · 27/02/2008 16:45

Well, this is terrible for you and I am shocked that the police are being so useless. Another vote for the press/MP option.

Chequers · 27/02/2008 16:47

Message withdrawn

Kathyis6incheshigh · 27/02/2008 16:49

If it was just 'dogs off the lead in your local park' or 'dogs on the street' it would be bad enough, but for them to be actually in your garden and the police not do anything is outrageous.

I don't think there is anything morally wrong with poisoning, in that situation, though I guess it would be impractical if they're not out all the time and there are other dogs (incl yours) that go in the wood.

southeastastra · 27/02/2008 16:52

i've had a brainwave! dig a trap. (but tell the children)

RedJools · 27/02/2008 16:52

I think that is what makes me so , PPP!! THEY are the ones breaking the law, but all the police can suggest is things I should do! I KNOW my priority is to protect my kids, but that money we are spending on fencing is money I was hoping might let us have our first family holiday in 4 years , and it's just because of someone else's ignorance and stupidity! THEY are the bad guys, but they can do what they like because they, apparently, live outside the law, so I have to bow down to it and suck it up. it really blows!

OP posts:
RedJools · 27/02/2008 16:55

I would dig a trap, southeastastra, but my dh is the clumsiest man in the world....! Have wondered if the cat protection people who trap cats had a great big trap I could borrow....!
I did think about taking the rabbits out of the hutch and leaving it open so they jump in, then trapping them ijn there (its a huge hutch/ run!) As I say, only problem is you never know when they are coming.

OP posts:
Kathyis6incheshigh · 27/02/2008 16:56

What would happen if you did trap them in your hutch?