to be able to expect my kids to play safely in our own back garden?

[RedJools]

Grrr! We have a back garden, which backs onto woodland which we also own. It is lovely and, I thought, a great place for our kids, as I grew up in the house next door to this, and loved the outdoor space as a child. At the moment dd1 and dd2 have part of the garden almost completely fenced off to play in. They are 4 and 2.5. We also have 2 rabbits in a big run, that the kids love to play with, sandpits, chutes a playhouse etc. It's not a huge garden, although we have a lot of space which I hope eventually to turn into more garden for them to play in. So far so good.

Unfortunately, some idiot who lives way over the other side of our woods has a Japanese Akita, a Rottweiler and a Staffie x, which he seems to make no attempt to keep in. They have burst their way into our garden and attempted to kill our rabbits, causing huge damage to the run and garden.Having caught them in the garden 4 times, we informed the police, who told us they can't do anything unless we know whose dogs they are. (From this logic, don't bother telling the police if your house gets burgled, unless you know who did it) So we found out who owned the dogs, which wasn't hard, as it turns out they have been reported to the police several times by other neighbours and belong to the local hard-cases (drug-runners, murderers etc). Having passed this information on to the police, I was told there is nothing we can do unless we can prove they are his dogs! (So even if you find out who burgled your house, don't bother going to the police until you have detailed your fingerprint evidence and run your DNA samples)

I am not frightened of dogs. I am a vet with 12 years experience, and as such I do know a bit about these breeds. Enough to know they should be treated with caution, and never out without an owner on their own, never mind in a pack! Amongst the useful suggestions the police gave me were:
Fence off all our ground (would only cost about £2000-£3000, no problem!!!!)
Put poison down- I have 3 small children and 2 dogs of our own! Besides "is that legal?" "Oh, er, not sure!"
Phone the dog warden- he came 2d later!!
Check and see if the owners name was on the collar- yeah, as its standing growling at me with its mates, I'll just casually sashay up to it and grab it by the collar...
I've taken photos and we finally scraped together enough money to reinforce the fence and make it higher. Was just starting to relax, even though I know the beasts are still crashing about in our woods/ driveway, until I saw the bloody rottie sauntering past my kitchen window today, round my front garden, through the front gate and round the back again!! I saw red and chased it, (breaking my good mop in the process-grr!), and DH has had to give up his afternoon off to get stuff to block up the bit beside the front gate now!! Its like living in Fort Knox, and I STILL don't feel safe letting my kids out the back. Yes, I am usually out there with them, but even if I was, and they were playing with the rabbits would I be quick enough if these dogs came back?

I KNOW their owners might say they are "big softies" (heard that sooo many times, usually before a dog goes for my face!) but surely they should not be roaming unsupervised in a street where kids often kick a football/ ride bikes/ walk smaller dogs? In fact, I know they shouldn't. the police say they have spoken to the owner, but that is all they can do. I don't want to get involved with these people if I can help it- by all accounts they are nasty and dangerous, and my dh is away quite a lot. I asked the police to stress to the owners that they were going into gardens where there were small children, but that doesn't seem to have pricked their conscience. I could understand the dogs escaping once, or even twice, but over the last year they have been in my garden about 12 times! Obviously I don't want to hurt the dogs, as a vet, and , more importantly, for fear of retribution!! But I am getting so angry now- for once even the rottie was scared of me today, although possibly because it didn't have the others with it!

Any ideas??

[lilacclaire]

Try your local MP and the local paper, surely this would pressure the police into taking further action!

[RedJools]

Hmm, I'm loving the idea of you guys running round the woods in white suits, but you might be a bit, er suspicious??!! I can get the ketamine, but these dogs probably shoot up for breakfast. In fact, they probably test the quality of the gear for their fuckwitt owners (a la "The dog from DelMOnte- he say yes!!) So finding large enough quantities of drugs may be a problem. Bullets (even air gun pellets) can be traced.
We need blunt trauma here, but these buggers have skulls 3" thick!! I have an elevated balcony, so lassoing/ strangulation is a favourite fantasy of mine. As is knocking it out with half a brick, tying it up and doing a wee dance round it to "Stuck in the middle with you" while brandishing a knife".......

Back in the real world, we have put up more fencing. Sigh!

[onebatmother]

lol RJ. I live in East London and I very much feel your pain.

[3littlefrogs]

Did anyone see the item on last night's news about the trend for keeping dangerous dogs as weapons? They interviewed a gang member whose dog was trained to attack if anyone so much as approached him. How on earth do the police deal with that? It is terrifying. You see them hanging around parks and playgrounds.

A few years ago ds1 was robbed by a man using a rottweiler as well as a knife.

I don't know what to say to you RJ, it is an awful situation.

[mcfee]

It makes me mad when people describe their own dogs as 'big softies' They are DOGS!!! I have a black labrador which is the goofiest, friendliest animal in the world but he is a DOG therefore never once has been left alone with DD (age 3.5) If an animal is outwith its comfort zone, or can't cope with sudden actions (like little people are prone to) or feels scared / threatened the only defence it has is to snap / bite or worse. Its not the dogs fault, its just the only thing it can instinctively do. It makes me mad when people like your neighbour dismiss other people's fears. Sorry, big rant but as a responsible dog owner it makes my blood boil!

[RedJools]

I know, mcfee! As a vet, I get at ALL the time!! As soon as I hear the words "big softy" my heart sinks and I sharpen my reflexes (never let me down yet!) "Oh, he's never done that before!" Yeah, well, you've probably never had to look in his ears/ listen to his heart....Same with kids- they can quite easily upset dogs just with their body language. Lots of dog owners actually think its ok for their dogs to bite the vet, incidentally! "That's your job!" Eh?? Or worse, they find it funny!

Given this guy's history, I would hedge a bet that these dogs are not being kept to be cuddly pets. they live outside in a yard, apparently, and therefore are probably poorly socialised. They are protection dogs, I think, given his chosen career, which doesn't make me feel a lot better about them!

In an ideal world he would bring them to my surgery for treatment.....

[kekouan]

You cannot poison them!!! bloody hell, it's not the dogs fault.

Definitely call the RSPCA though.. if they're loose then they should be able to grab them and take them away..

[jezzemx]

Sod the poison. Do you own a shotgun???
I know this is not very helpful but it makes me really angry when month after month you hear in the news about defenceless children who are maimed, scarred or killed because of these dangerous dogs.
Sounds as if the owner has a little willy IMO men who own big dogs are lacking in size down there. It must be tiny if he's got so many big dogs

[morningpaper]

I've had a great idea

Plant hundreds of chocolate eggs in the wood "for an Easter Egg Hunt"

well that's it really

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

ROFL!!!!!

[AlistairSim]

RedJools - Do you know anyone with a really large snake??

Article in The Times today about a python eating a family dog....

[TwoFirTreesToday]

Could you trap one (or all) in the garden then call the warden to have it removed? Claim you have no idea who the owner is. Might need a bit of juggling to get the dog trapped but they would have to remove it then, hopefully

Failing that I would go for fences and nasty prickly bushes, however much it costs.

[onebatmother]

hire pygmy and blowpipe?

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

I would like to see at rotty fight a python....

[RedJools]

I know- I realised yesterday after I saw red and chased the bugger out that had I not, had I just blocked the hole where it got in, it would have been trapped (albeit with my sweet little bunnies) and maybe then someone would have come to take it away- DOH!!! Only problem was, it was trying to trash the fence/ gate that we spent money putting up the last time so it couldn't get IN!

I have tried dogwardens, SSPCA don't want to know- responsibility of the police (unbeknown to the police!!) No-one ever comes when the dogs are actually still there!! 4 hours later is no use! I don't think the dog warden actually wants to catch them, tbh, as he's probably shit-scared!! I should have said it was a pair of yorkies..

Poor DH is out there still fencing- bang goes our holiday this year, we've spent another £50 and he is away back up to B&Q again

[RedJools]

I do know pythons- just not one big enough! Maybe a crocodile....

[Surr3ymummy]

Have quickly scanned the posts. Agree it would not be a good idea to poison or otherwise destroy the dogs, however tempting that might be. Fencing although expensive is one solution, otherwise I'd be inclined to lure them into a shed (if you have one?) with a nice bit of meat and shut them in there and call the dog warden (even if that takes a couple of days!) Make sure there's water in the shed of course, and some food. Or if you're up for it, to get them into a car and take them to your local rescue centre.

Difficult situation though...

[RedJools]

I have thought of the trap-them-in-the-garage option, the question is, how to get them out again! Even a dog warden can't be expected to nab 3 dogs charging past him as soon as you open the door! I did think of a portable dog crate with a dead rabbit (obviously not one of mine!) in it, but even just getting near these guys is going to be dodgy- they could turn as you went to shut the door, resulting in some nasty injuries. A lot of these guys will "kennel guard" as well, and will be more aggressive when cornered.

I was pretty stupid yesterday approaching the thing with a mop, but I was so angry, I think even it got a fright, and at that point I was almost hoping the thing WOULD go for me. Horrible, I know, but at least then I could get something done. I don't really fancy being disfigured for life, though! But if it got me it might then be destroyed before it could ever get near my kids..

[Upwind]

Not read the whole thread and I know you are a terrible shot but what about a bb gun from the safety of the house? Would sting them and maybe deter them from coming back. My Dad used to throw stones (with force) in a similar situation and it did seem to work.

Otherwise, perhaps you could try getting involved in local politics and pressuring them that way? If everything you have provided is strictly true maybe naming and shaming them on internet forums might also help.

If your local police force was #1 on google for failing to deal with dangerous dogs it wouldn't look so good. And in a world where there is seemingly no accountability, it might be the only way.

[Upwind]

Not read the whole thread and I know you are a terrible shot but what about a bb gun from the safety of the house? Would sting them and maybe deter them from coming back. My Dad used to throw stones (with force) in a similar situation and it did seem to work.

Otherwise, perhaps you could try getting involved in local politics and pressuring them that way? If everything you have provided is strictly true maybe naming and shaming them on internet forums might also help.

If your local police force was #1 on google for failing to deal with dangerous dogs it wouldn't look so good. And in a world where there is seemingly no accountability, it might be the only way.

[Lovesdogsandcats]

Not read whole thread but want to sympathise.
As a (3) dog owner I would be horrified to think a neighbour was too scared to tell me that my dogs were frightening them/their kids.
When I moved into my house, a hedge at the back had gaps in and my youngest dog kept squeezing through to the house on the other side. I made sure that the gaps were blocked up because it's not on.

So, I really cannot understand why any dog owner would be unreasonable when confronted witht he fact that their 3 large dogs are trespassing in a garden where young children are playing!

If I were you, I would go round and be nice and friendly, and tell them that the children are scared of the dogs, ask owner to come and see damage to rabbit hutch, ask will they make sure the dogs cannot get in your garden, bribe them with your vet services in the future and I am sure they will see sense

Drug running and murdering in the criminal underworld is one thing, but dogs terrorising kids and rabbits is another, so maybe go round and see what they have to say? (wait til the rottie pisses you off again, and take your mop )

[RedJools]

I'm like you, loversdogsandcats, if it was one of my dogs escaping I'd be horrified! I have thought of going round to their house, but dh won't let me!! The police have spoken to them on our behalf in the past, and they don't seem to care. My only worry is that if I go round and they laugh at me, then they know who I am and that I am p'd off about the dogs, which, apparently, wouldn't be good. Especially if anything DID happen to the dogs whilst out on their travels. Better that I don't take my mop though!! Might end up with ME being arrested for assault and bleachery!

[superloopy]

Ok my twisted mind has come up with a plan...

Print up a very generous discount voucher for your vet clinic, say 50% off.

Track down nasty dog owners address and pop voucher through their door.

Next dump a load of cream eggs where these horrible bloody dogs lurk. (our dog stole 2 cream eggs last week and was shitting like you wouldn't believe. she was also feeling very sorry for herself).

Hopefully these dogs will then gorge themselves, go home and crap everywhere. Owners might then be responsible and bring them to you for treatment.

Tadah!! Handed to you on a platter to deal with as you see fit. Maybe a fake diagnosis of something fatal or expensive to treat. Sleepy bye byes nasty doggies!! Or you could tell the owners they were put to sleep and secretly have them rehomed.

Then charge the owners double to cover the costs of your new fences.

Problem solved!

[superloopy]

Oh dear just read this