To not understand what she’s spending it on

[Idlovetoknow]

It’s my mother. She’s a pensioner and a widow, but she working. She cannot deal with her finances. She’s been on the phone tonight weeping over how much of a dire situation she’s in financially, but I don’t see how.

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

No mortgage, no rent, no grounds costs.
council tax £200 a month. Power £150 (let’s say 200 to round up) food and pet food £400, car £450 petrol £100, health insurance £200, phone £50, sky £50, pet insurance £80- that’s £1300 at an absolute max

i don’t understand. She’s not being frauded or taken advantage of, but i don’t understand. I try to talk to her for instance tonight when she rang frantic over money but she gets into such a tizz she can’t tell you anything. I’ve asked for months for all bills and bank statements to go over expenses but she can’t produce them

Anyone any ideas?

Also the estate agent if audited will fail compliance. This isn’t stacking up either.

i was missing a lot of the posts because there’s a few. But I do appreciate your support on the matter! And objectively you’re right, of course! It’s objectively thr right thing to do, I do feel bad at the thought however.

apologies I’ve conflated @justasking111 s elderly hubby and your own situation. Hard to keep up x

I dont quite understand this

Ah cross post x

If nothing else, it’s spectacularly self absorbed of your mum to complain about money (and in the next breath buys a new car and books a holiday) when you and your dh are juggling four jobs just to stay afloat and can’t afford a holiday.

Maybe suggest your mum gets a second job? Let’s out or sells her second house?
My parents are in their 70s and both work full time.

she sounds a bit like my daughter. But she has PDA / autism.
I do too, and could see myself spiralling if I started to panic / was pressed too much for info that I couldnt solve immediately

As others have said, this is not really about the money at all.
She has loads of money and assets, it is really not a problem.

It is not even a problem if she is being scammed, giving money to your brother, gambling, drinking, giving it all to charities, getting dementia, etc, etc. - that is to say it is not YOUR problem.
If when she dies there is nothing left but a pile of debts, well, so what? Are you counting on getting an inheritance? (No-one should ever count on an inheritance, as you never know if care homes will take the lot, even if your parent has been a financial wizard all their life.)

You do however have a major problem - your reactions to her.

She is utterly spoilt, childish, selfish, and in your own words 'abusive' (to your late father). You have suffered your whole life from this abusive mother and don't seem able to see it. Even if she has a 'condition' like ADHD, PDA, or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that you have suffered, and are still suffering, because of her.

You seem unable to detach emotionally from her. Your problem is that you are unable to shut her up and refuse to listen to her tantrumming and hysterics.

I suggest that (when you can afford it) you might get some counselling about the highly dysfunctional relationships between your mother, brother and you.

You must also recognise that you are grieving over your father - perhaps look for some free grief counselling for yourself.

If I was your Mum OP and had that kind of income, savings and a 2nd home standing empty and going to rot, I'd give you an early inheritance so you didn't have to take a 2nd job to make ends meet.

Honestly, she's your Mum, but she doesn't deserve your angst over all of this.

and yes, as @Trianglesandcircles1 say, the potential of any neurodiversity or personality disorder doesnt make her behaviour acceptable. Understandable perhaps, but it doesnt mean that you have to indulge it.

Especially given that you seem to be the scapegoat in the triangle of narcissism/golden child/scapegoat

Its really hard. You cannot change how she behaves and she reacts. Whether she is willing to try, or whether she is unable to, due to whatever reasons, it is actually quite unlikely. She has found a way that serves her well - be that due to awful parenting / early life experiences or undiagnosed neurodiversity, or a toxic mix of all theree - her ways of getting her needs met are that of a young child, and they seem to have been so extreme that they have endured into adulthood. Im sure that she can be pleasant, funny, charming and attentive. But its when things go wrong or needs arent being met that either the panic or the fury set in, and the histrionics come out. In the past that has set everyone running around trying to solve and pacify. Ultimately her needs are met.

Golden boy probably carries his own baggage, but like your mum - thats not your problem to solve. I assume he probably uses the same techniques as is a bit of a mini me for your mum. But his approval will only come while he is agreement with her, and does what she approves of. they both probably feed each others neediness and adoration.

You are the saver. But also the role of saver means that responsibility is passed over, and as you say it is your fault when it goes wrong, even when she goes against the advice that you gave. And no praise when it doesnt because 'she did it'

You cannot win here. Ultimately you need to learn how to step out of her game.

Back to the start - you cannot change her behaviour. The ONLY thing you can change is how you react to it. At the moment you are still trying to fix it.

You need boundaries.
You need to to discuss with your own family what you can and cannot achieve.
To be honest Id be twempted to take the wrath (and I KNOW that has awful feelings for you, due to her conditioning of you, but honestly the light off your shoulders in the long run would be worth it) and tell her that you cannot help her. Thats she doesnt have the paperwork and you cannot do anything. Direct her elsewhere. and then refuse to discuss it again. I think someopne suggested it upthread. She is far far from destitute. So wont starve. She wont be made homeless. She may run up debts, but sounds as if she is on the ball enough to not do that. But what she is wanting is actually impossible.

I expect there will be another disaster. But you are allowed to step back. You are allowed to not help - to pass her to agencies much better placed and local to her. You are allowed to not be drawn into her dramas

I agree with @Trianglesandcircles1 .

Given your mum might live for another 25 or 30 years, it might be worth having some counselling around your relationship.

Because it's the money now, but could well be something else later on.

You've already mentioned how she likes to come and see you at weekends for a change of scene. So she appears lonely.

But if she's draining you dry ( and not your brother) that says a lot.

I'd put money on you always being the 'people pleaser' as home caught in between your mum's abuse towards your Dad and the backwash you received.

And like a lot of men, your brother escaped either because he's a man (and your mum didn't dare involve him) and you were the capable, caring daughter who felt obliged to step into their dodgy marriage and help keep the peace.

It's worth considering all of this with a professional because, as others have said, your Mum is now abusing you because you have taken your Dad's place in the family dynamics.

Drop the rope OP, why on earth are you stressing yourself out over a 68 year old woman that is minted in comparison to most people?
If she is short of £400 let her go short, she needs to learn somehow that once she has spent it, it's gone!
At 68, she should have learned that money isn't an infinite resource for most of us and she might have to go without a holiday or two but I would not be bending over backwards to sort her finances (she didn't listen to a financial advisor, why would she listen to you?)
Honestly, she sounds like a spoiled brat rather than a mature older lady, I would probably laugh down the phone at her next time she rang complaining!!!

She will be paying a lot of tax on her salary, though I doubt it’s 50% if she is receiving enhanced state pension from leaving it in for a few years, it is probably taxable and instead of getting a bill for the tax it is coming off her work PAYE. I’m in a similar position, though not nearly as wealthy, and 30% comes off my salary. Must say your mum must be on quite a good wage if she still takes home £1000 a month for 20 hours work.

My elderly MIL was similar in her later years. No dementia or other illness but constantly worrying about money. I used to ask her if she wanted the paper when I was out and about and she would say 'can I afford one'. I just used to laugh and say you can afford the whole paper shop shall I buy it for you.

She would stop buying things because they 'were expensive', small things like M&S trifles, it was never anything big. I think for a lot of older people it just becomes something they focus on.

She gave me her tax code as it’s a higher rate one it’s a DO code which I looked up and it says higher rate on all income, trouble is she’s just found out and doesn’t know when it started because she doesn’t look at bills or payslips.

She could ask her employer for back payslips. She would also have received a letter from HMRC giving her tax code. She seems to be indulging in a lot of leaned helplessness, yet she can’t be that helpless if she holds down a fairly well paid job.

I do think it’s awful that she moans about you not helping her when you have a job and 2 very young children.

Hi, your original post doesn't mention payment for the holidays.
5 holidays a year, 2 weeks at a time and in I presume expensive hotels can add up. That works out at paying for a holiday roughly every 2 months.
Not to mention the 10 weeks a holiday taken off work....a lot of that would have to be taken unpaid.

Could she be in an on line dating con? She'd be too embarrassed to talk about it but could be sending money every month?

She doesn't want your verbal help. She wants you to give her money, if she is talking about a £400 "shortfall" (against what?)

I would come out and say mum, you have more money than I can dream of at the moment, what you do with it is your business but I haven't got any to give you.

she did it yesterday when I pressed her on her expenses, said I was pushing her to suicide and to drop it even though she has said to me she was going to have to cancel her phone as she can’t afford it anymore

I don’t really know how to describe this but it seems like a bizarre attention seeking game. Coming up with something that will save a few quid that will make you feel sorry for her when she is sitting on assets which will release thousands of pounds.

She really doesn’t! She is literally in a position to help you and your young family and, instead, she is just making demands on you.

So as I understand she’d just be spending the money she had that month on them so it would be cash paid for. She’s not had those hols since my dad retired and died and obviously no one was travelling with covid, so it’s been since 2018/19 since she went away like that

She gave me her tax code as it’s a higher rate one it’s a DO code which I looked up and it says higher rate on all income

Tax codes only apply to each separate income source, so, no, one tax code being D0 only applies to the wage/pension it applies to, not all the other wages/pensions, all of which will have their own tax codes.

What job does she do that brings in that much. She sounds flaky and all those holidays… how does she get the leave authorised. That widows pension is huge. Cannot say I understand how it’s so high. Is it that it’s DF’s private pension? The state pension is nothing like this.

Someone mentioned subscriptions and QVC. I had to give my head a wobble with QVC Beauty. Those offers were just too good to miss but I ended up with loads of Elemis products that will last me for the next 2 years!

Also I noticed as POA with DM that those begging charities were just shocking. Mum was sending £30 a time. They need to be ashamed of themselves targeting older people like this.

That widows pension is huge. Cannot say I understand how it’s so high. Is it that it’s DF’s private pension? The state pension is nothing like this.

The OP has explained this clearly upthread @Tracker1234

Her father was receiving £3K per month as a pension. (This is not uncommon for someone who has a Final Salary pension and earned 6 figures over a lifetime.)

As her mum is his widow, she is eligible for 50% and sometimes more if he died within 5 years of retirement.

Her own state pension that she would have been able to access at 66, is £800 a month. That's the full rate for someone her age.

She also has £200 a month as her own occupational pension presumably which she cashed in even though she carries on working.

£1000 a month is not a huge income from her current job. A usual working week would be 37 hours, so pro rata it's around £high 20s, full time. She's in sales, so maybe there is commission too.

She will be paying a lot of tax on her salary, though I doubt it’s 50% if she is receiving enhanced state pension from leaving it in for a few years,

women of 68 only became eligible for state pensions on their 66th birthday. Some were 67, depending on the month they were born. So she's won't have left her pension before claiming it.

She will not be paying a lot of tax on anything, as her total income is less than £50K (although might be close as the figures OP gives for her work are net income.) But she will be paying 20% tax up to £50K income.