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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What's your opinion on religions that don't think you, if single, should have a 'love life' even with yourself?

250 replies

porridgeisbae · 29/07/2023 16:50

Just that really.

I converted to Catholicism but I think that bit's a bit harsh.

OP posts:
MavisMcMinty · 30/07/2023 04:24

I don’t know why anyone would CHOOSE to be Catholic when you could have become a Quaker. I don’t think you even have to believe in God to join, and they’re always the very best people. No evangelising, no stupid rules, no ridiculous hang-ups over sex and wanking. You should have googled a bit more first when browsing for a religion.

MintJulia · 30/07/2023 04:28

All religions are just a form of control. They are insidious, manipulative and mostly intended to limit the rights and freedoms of women.

They became irrelevant to me, when about the age of 7, I was able to work this out for myself. 50 years on, I have not seen anything to change my mind.

I am puzzled why any rational person would have anything to do with them. Any of them.

Guineapigwoes · 30/07/2023 04:29

You’re still bi op, you always will be.

To be honest if you’re feeling confused, guilty and sinful I think you’re doing Catholicism right.

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 30/07/2023 04:34

MavisMcMinty · 30/07/2023 04:24

I don’t know why anyone would CHOOSE to be Catholic when you could have become a Quaker. I don’t think you even have to believe in God to join, and they’re always the very best people. No evangelising, no stupid rules, no ridiculous hang-ups over sex and wanking. You should have googled a bit more first when browsing for a religion.

My very devout Catholic MIL told her priest once that we wanted to talk to him about converting to Catholicism. We did not, but we agreed to meet him to keep her happy. We had a very interesting theological decision and he ended up telling me I would make a great Quaker!

Somewhereovertherainbowweighapie · 30/07/2023 04:40

My boys go to a catholic school, will there be a note home about it?

I think you will be ok OP, I don’t think anyone is going to be peeking in your bedroom window at night to check. But maybe close the curtains just in case.

Annaishere · 30/07/2023 04:52

I suppose the aim of religion is to make us holy

Ponderingwindow · 30/07/2023 05:04

Religion serves as a means of social control. Rules about sex are designed to create a desired outcome, in this case sanctioned relationships which can lead to procreation and more followers.

its logical from a social engineering perspective if your goal is to spread the religion.

that the religions do not particularly care about the outcomes for individuals is obvious when crafting these rules.

Rudderneck · 30/07/2023 06:23

porridgeisbae · 29/07/2023 16:50

Just that really.

I converted to Catholicism but I think that bit's a bit harsh.

It's really a matter of understanding why they say that, and then what you think of their reasoning.

Basically, the Catholic position is that the purpose of sex is to be a vehicle for reproduction. That's clearly true physiologically, if it weren't a reproductive act it wouldn't exist. They take the position that when sex is unhinged entirely from that purpose, and engaged in only for secondary reasons, it becomes disordered and can become a destructive force.

It's actually very similar to how they see something like gluttony. Eating is a very pleasurable thing, enjoying food is good, and often an important social activity. But its primary purpose is to maintain the physical needs of the body.

In this case what they would suggest is that we should enjoy food and it's social role, but regulate consumption within the boundaries of it's primary purpose - what the body needs. if we totally forget about the physical needs of the body, proper nutrition and such, you will get problems like obesity, unhealthy eating, diabetes, but also problems like the industrial food system, other kinds of disordered eating, creation of highly palatable but unhealthy processed food, factory farming, and so on.

Similarly for sex, they would say, sex is enjoyable and loving, but the way to keep it from becoming something negative is to regulate it within the bounds of it's primary purpose. Otherwise it can become something destructive.

The typical argument against that would probably be that we can regulate in less exacting ways. Maybe keep sex within marriage say, or keep an eye on how much crap food we eat. On hte other hand, it's hard not to see that society has issues with over-consumption of sex and and food, and also questionable forms of consumption. Boundaries aren't so easy to maintain when you try and construct them.

Anyotherdude · 30/07/2023 06:51

Religion is just an archaic attempt to impose societal rules.
While this might have been a necessary process in an age where society didn’t exist previously, I would like to think that we have moved beyond the need to believe that someone is watching you to behave properly.
I mean, all Religions now can be compared to the “Elf on the shelf” fad at Christmas, but in some parts of the world, those people that are more hard-of-thinking (normally men, tbh) still can’t grasp that the religious “rules” are there to enable people to live together peacefully, not to impose a narrow view of world order that needs them to enforce it…

LeonardCohensRaincoat · 30/07/2023 07:27

@Anyotherdude

Religion is just an archaic attempt to impose societal rules

how do you impose social rules so that we all get along? When you take away something that unifies people in an abstract yet valued determined way, what alternatives are there? I’m curious.

There are people that probably don’t consider themselves part of a religious community but still benefit from so much that socially is done by them because the alternatives haven’t worked.

I’m genuinely curious as to what else can work at the same level - I don’t think society has found the answer which is why the faiths still exist- law? Prison as a deterrent? Look at the arguments on here - socially we have not resolved our need to assert our individuality at all times along with our need for support and security from others. What holds it all together?

LeonardCohensRaincoat · 30/07/2023 07:35

@Rudderneck yes, exactly. I think people outside of Catholicism are much more preoccupied with the sex issues and have a confused idea about the teachings.

Within the faith, it’s just meant to be something that addresses the parts of life that cause emotional equilibrium and disturbance - one’s inner world, as such. It also asserts that if these things aren’t in sync with nature then there is a problem that needs to be resolved and that society should revolve around protecting these human rights not exploiting them. Historically, I can’t marry that up with the abuse we now know happened across the world but that is the mission at the heart of the Church. It’s a good thing we have something powerful advocating for our human rights.

thinkkook · 30/07/2023 07:44

All religion is nonsense so that's the end of it for me.

Mutabiliss · 30/07/2023 07:47

I'd say they're unrealistic at best. It's normal human behaviour (actually normal ape behaviour), so telling people not to do it is just setting them up to fail.

Religion is control of the masses. If you don't agree with the faith's teachings, don't follow it.

Annaishere · 30/07/2023 07:48

I suppose it’s based on how we would be expected to act in heaven in front of god

pointythings · 30/07/2023 07:55

@Rudderneck please take diabetes off that list. It is simply not true that all cases are caused by overindulgence. Diabetics don't need stigma.

Toddlerteaplease · 30/07/2023 08:10

I'm Catholic and I don't think anyone actually cares about other people's love lives. My friend is an Archbishop and is completely in favour of gay marriage for example.

Simonjt · 30/07/2023 08:20

Rudderneck · 30/07/2023 06:23

It's really a matter of understanding why they say that, and then what you think of their reasoning.

Basically, the Catholic position is that the purpose of sex is to be a vehicle for reproduction. That's clearly true physiologically, if it weren't a reproductive act it wouldn't exist. They take the position that when sex is unhinged entirely from that purpose, and engaged in only for secondary reasons, it becomes disordered and can become a destructive force.

It's actually very similar to how they see something like gluttony. Eating is a very pleasurable thing, enjoying food is good, and often an important social activity. But its primary purpose is to maintain the physical needs of the body.

In this case what they would suggest is that we should enjoy food and it's social role, but regulate consumption within the boundaries of it's primary purpose - what the body needs. if we totally forget about the physical needs of the body, proper nutrition and such, you will get problems like obesity, unhealthy eating, diabetes, but also problems like the industrial food system, other kinds of disordered eating, creation of highly palatable but unhealthy processed food, factory farming, and so on.

Similarly for sex, they would say, sex is enjoyable and loving, but the way to keep it from becoming something negative is to regulate it within the bounds of it's primary purpose. Otherwise it can become something destructive.

The typical argument against that would probably be that we can regulate in less exacting ways. Maybe keep sex within marriage say, or keep an eye on how much crap food we eat. On hte other hand, it's hard not to see that society has issues with over-consumption of sex and and food, and also questionable forms of consumption. Boundaries aren't so easy to maintain when you try and construct them.

Can you please explain how I caused my type 1 diabetes?

newfloorplease · 30/07/2023 08:38

cocoloco117 · 29/07/2023 17:06

I thought Catholicism was all ‘do what you like just confess and it’s all good’ so just have a wank and then say a few Hail Marys.

😂

LeonardCohensRaincoat · 30/07/2023 08:52

@cocoloco117

thats actually really offensive, Cico. A cheap laugh at the expense of peoples faith. To reduce it to something as simplistic as you suggest really indicates a lack of intellectual understanding. I’m curious - do you feel the same about other faiths like Judaism or Islam? The C of E? Or is it just Catholicism? Or even, just Catholics?

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 30/07/2023 09:49

LeonardCohensRaincoat · 30/07/2023 08:52

@cocoloco117

thats actually really offensive, Cico. A cheap laugh at the expense of peoples faith. To reduce it to something as simplistic as you suggest really indicates a lack of intellectual understanding. I’m curious - do you feel the same about other faiths like Judaism or Islam? The C of E? Or is it just Catholicism? Or even, just Catholics?

You know what's more offensive?

Religious organisations that seek to exercise control over society and claim moral authority, while supporting abuse and manipulation, and flip-flopping on moral issues in an attempt to stay relevant in modern society.

It's even more offensive when it is clear that the vast majority of followers of any religion don't truly believe in their god(s) or at least the teachings of said religion but go along with everything because they've been indoctrinated.

LeonardCohensRaincoat · 30/07/2023 10:12

You’ve missed the point of everything we’ve said.

This kind of rhetoric has been overused now. You don’t care about poor Catholics, abused Catholics. You’re just using these atrocities to sling mud because of your idea of what those religions are about. I don’t practise as I don’t want to live that kind of life either but I can see that for some people they find community where there was no alternative, security when they need it and something that helps them make sense of their life.

“It's even more offensive when it is clear that the vast majority of followers of any religion don't truly believe in their god(s) or at least the teachings of said religion but go along with everything because they've been indoctrinated.”

who are you to judge? Seriously, how do you know the lives of religious people so well you can judge them? How do you shape up?

CurlewKate · 30/07/2023 10:21

Did you not consider this before you converted?

OrlandointheWilderness · 30/07/2023 11:00

The problem with religion is that is was made by people, not God. Any God that would send you to hell over enjoying a pleasure put there BY him would not be a God I would want anything to do with.

Any I'm a vicars daughter!

Anyotherdude · 30/07/2023 12:46

@LeonardCohensRaincoat Now that Society has been established, there are far more possibilities to engage in communal events in a positive manner.
That there are fewer and fewer attending Church services, in RC and CoE at least, but more and more people are taking part in E.g. cycling clubs, running clubs, football and rugby clubs on the weekend is the most visible example.
There are also many book clubs where people gather to discuss their feelings on reading a shared publication, and get great pleasure about seeing the world and the book from different perspectives.
These are all different ways of obtaining the inner peace and happiness that religions encourage.
I was raised as a RC: After trying for a long time to be a “good” catholic, I found it more and more impossible to reconcile my actions with those of some in the church (examples being the local deanery holding a meeting with the parish to discuss the possibility of sharing a Parish Priest, that descended into the ugliest argument I’ve ever witnessed - from both sides, and then the behaviour of high-profile so-called “devout” catholics in taking advantage of their position to acquire, by less than honest means, vast wealth Etc.)
I suppose I do live my life as I was brought up, but association or engagement with the church is something that I will not consider again.

Purplecatshopaholic · 30/07/2023 12:54

Nagado · 29/07/2023 17:01

I’m not a big fan of organised religion. Lots of arbitrary rules made up by the men running them, mostly to keep their members in order and the funds coming in.

I don’t think you have to go and sit in a particular place each week if you want to have a relationship with God. Just do a bit of praying, try to help people when you can and don’t be a dick. I’m pretty sure that was the general message.

Spot on