Page 9 | What's your opinion on religions that don't think you, if single, should have a 'love life' even with yourself?

porridgeisbae · 2023-07-29T15:50:42+00:00

Just that really. I converted to Catholicism but I think that bit's a bit harsh.

zoomingale · 11/08/2023 13:37

porridgeisbae · 11/08/2023 12:54

Hmm. And how do you "know" that Jesus, Peter and Paul said this stuff.. Because it says so in the Bible.

You either believe it or you don't.

Having seen your resounding endorsement of 30p Lee's statement about asylum serkrrs, I would say you have a lot yet to learn about following Bible and being a Christian.

I'm usually all for asylum seekers (and in theory, migrants, which most of these are; the problem is we are a small country.) I shouldn'tve written that, but a lot of people agree with his view- he is just voicing what a lot of people think (including most of his constituents, who he's supposed to represent.)

the homophobia affects other people.

It's not homophobia, it's solely saying what the Bible and Church say about an activity. People carrying on with it will effect them a lot more.

It's not homophobia, it's solely saying what the Bible and Church say about an activity. People carrying on with it will effect them a lot more.

You have decided that homsosexuality is wrong and that gay and bisexual people can and should change their sexuality. That's homophobia pure and simple. Blaming it on the church is cowardice.

How will people being an consensual loving same-sex relationships have a more negative effect that being told that who they are is wrong and they need to pray away the gay? That they either have to spend their whole lives never having a romantic or sexual relationship or get into a relationship with someone they don't love or feel attracted to?

Original poster

porridgeisbae · 11/08/2023 13:50

Within the faith, it’s just meant to be something that addresses the parts of life that cause emotional equilibrium and disturbance - one’s inner world, as such.

@LeonardCohensRaincoat Not so. Sins are sins (transgressions against God's law) and the primary reason for avoiding them is not that some of them affect us emotionally (that's just a knock on effect) but that God, who is a Person we're supposed to love, isn't happy when we do them. That and that they effect the fate of our immortal soul after death.

Well if the convert of few months says it's true it must be.

It's not just me obviously, we know what Scripture and the Church say about it. Ask the average Priest or Bible-believing Christian if Jesus would be at the head of a Pride parade. You know what the answer will be (unless you happen to be unlucky enough to ask a maverick priest that doesn't believe Church teaching (such a Priest is a contradiction in terms really, or should be.)

Bizarre isn’t it? If I was going to pick some restrictive, man made structure of belief, I’d at least go for the Gods of Ancient Egypt, bit more fun in it and far more creative!

I've probably been there and done that.

Why do you think God made people AND MANY OTHER ANIMAL SPECIES gay and bi if it’s such a sin?

He didn't. We went through The Fall and so we have a sinful nature that can express itself in all sorts of ways.

OP posts:

pointythings · 11/08/2023 14:09

So according to the fictional story, we now have gay penguins because of a choice a fictional human made. I would say you couldn't make it up, but people already have. 😂

crushercreel · 11/08/2023 14:18

I've probably been there and done that.

So what will you move on to next?

Original poster

porridgeisbae · 11/08/2023 14:25

So what will you move on to next?

I've considered this but I've done most things. If I did anything else I'd probably come back to the Church at some point anyway, that's part of why I got baptised. I first considered it at 21, but I definitely wasn't ready for all the rules then.

OP posts:

Naunet · 11/08/2023 14:31

porridgeisbae · 11/08/2023 13:50

Within the faith, it’s just meant to be something that addresses the parts of life that cause emotional equilibrium and disturbance - one’s inner world, as such.

@LeonardCohensRaincoat Not so. Sins are sins (transgressions against God's law) and the primary reason for avoiding them is not that some of them affect us emotionally (that's just a knock on effect) but that God, who is a Person we're supposed to love, isn't happy when we do them. That and that they effect the fate of our immortal soul after death.

Well if the convert of few months says it's true it must be.

It's not just me obviously, we know what Scripture and the Church say about it. Ask the average Priest or Bible-believing Christian if Jesus would be at the head of a Pride parade. You know what the answer will be (unless you happen to be unlucky enough to ask a maverick priest that doesn't believe Church teaching (such a Priest is a contradiction in terms really, or should be.)

Bizarre isn’t it? If I was going to pick some restrictive, man made structure of belief, I’d at least go for the Gods of Ancient Egypt, bit more fun in it and far more creative!

I've probably been there and done that.

Why do you think God made people AND MANY OTHER ANIMAL SPECIES gay and bi if it’s such a sin?

He didn't. We went through The Fall and so we have a sinful nature that can express itself in all sorts of ways.

Lol so God who disagrees with homosexuality and thinks it a a sin, made animals gay because humans sinned?! That makes no sense at all 😂

Not so. Sins are sins (transgressions against God's law) and the primary reason for avoiding them is not that some of them affect us emotionally (that's just a knock on effect) but that God, who is a Person we're supposed to love, isn't happy when we do them. That and that they effect the fate of our immortal soul after death.

And this sounds like an abusive relationship. So he made some of us gay, as a punishment for our sins, but we’re meant to love him enough not to be gay and upset him? He’s a maniac then.

crushercreel · 11/08/2023 14:38

It's not just me obviously, we know what Scripture and the Church say about it. Ask the average Priest or Bible-believing Christian if Jesus would be at the head of a Pride parade. You know what the answer will be (unless you happen to be unlucky enough to ask a maverick priest that doesn't believe Church teaching (such a Priest is a contradiction in terms really, or should be.)

What is the average bible believing Christian? Only the ones who have chosen the same interpretations as you?

Original poster

porridgeisbae · 11/08/2023 14:50

Why do you think God made people AND MANY OTHER ANIMAL SPECIES gay and bi if it’s such a sin?

Also, animals get up to all sorts of things. They're not 100% in control of what they do. Look at bonobos (if you have a strong enough constitution. )

OP posts:

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/08/2023 14:51

'And this sounds like an abusive relationship. So he made some of us gay, as a punishment for our sins, but we’re meant to love him enough not to be gay and upset him? He’s a maniac then.'

She's saying God didn't create homosexuality. Also, the Church has always taught that being gay, as in simply being same sex attracted, isn't a sin. Having gay sex is, in the same way masturbation and adultery and porn etc are. I don't know if people are genuinely unaware of this or if they know that they're deliberately conflating 'being gay' and 'having gay sex'. If the confusion is genuine it's a real condemnation of the state of religious education in post-Christian countries.

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/08/2023 14:54

@porridgeisbae There's something I've always wondered about which you might know the answer to. The Christian God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent, as I understand it. So it must follow that he permitted the fall to happen. In fact, it has to have been God's will. But how is that consistent with benevolence? This is just the question of evil again but I never find a Christian who can answer it for me properly.

pointythings · 11/08/2023 14:57

@Pollyputhekettleon there's no conflation or lack of understanding at all. According to the zealots, being gay is not a sin. Having gay sex is. Having sex outside marriage is. But marriage is only for opposite sex couples. Therefore if you're gay, you are never allowed to have sex, or masturbate. You don't get a choice about being celibate, it's your only option.

If a human being did this to another, it would be considered coercive control. Which is a form of abuse. Why does your deity get a pass?

pointythings · 11/08/2023 15:03

@Pollyputhekettleon apologies, your post about benevolence suggests you don't believe what OP believes.

I too struggle with the idea that this god is in any way benevolent.

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/08/2023 15:07

@pointythings Ok, so are knowingly conflating the two. Do you even notice how dishonest that is? It's literally a lie to say that 'being gay' is a sin in Christianity. There's no need to lie to make the point you're trying to make, which is simply that you think it's wrong and evil to demand that people be celibate if not married to a person of the other sex. Why is it so difficult to just say that?

I'm not Christian by the way, I don't know why you're assuming I am. I just happen to like the truth and hate lies.

Naunet · 11/08/2023 15:07

porridgeisbae · 11/08/2023 14:50

Why do you think God made people AND MANY OTHER ANIMAL SPECIES gay and bi if it’s such a sin?

Also, animals get up to all sorts of things. They're not 100% in control of what they do. Look at bonobos (if you have a strong enough constitution. )

You know humans are animals, right?!

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/08/2023 15:08

The problem of evil isn't specific to the Christian God. Judaism and Islam have the same issue and if you're not a subscriber to those faiths then you're not required to believe that they all worship the same god.

Naunet · 11/08/2023 15:09

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/08/2023 14:51

'And this sounds like an abusive relationship. So he made some of us gay, as a punishment for our sins, but we’re meant to love him enough not to be gay and upset him? He’s a maniac then.'

She's saying God didn't create homosexuality. Also, the Church has always taught that being gay, as in simply being same sex attracted, isn't a sin. Having gay sex is, in the same way masturbation and adultery and porn etc are. I don't know if people are genuinely unaware of this or if they know that they're deliberately conflating 'being gay' and 'having gay sex'. If the confusion is genuine it's a real condemnation of the state of religious education in post-Christian countries.

Course he did, he created everything!

redlightgreen · 11/08/2023 15:10

Go fuck themselves

they might like it

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/08/2023 15:14

@Naunet Just declaring that to be so doesn't make it so, you know. You ever hear of 'give reasons for your answer'?

pointythings · 11/08/2023 15:24

@Pollyputhekettleon read my post again. I did not say that Christians believe being gay is a sin. I fully understand that the prohibition is against gay sex, just as it is against extramarital sex. But the logical outcome of this is that according to this flavour of Christianity, gay people are never allowed to have sex with someone they are attracted to, only with someone of the opposite sex. No lie, just logic.

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/08/2023 15:32

@pointythings This is what you said:

'So he made some of us gay, as a punishment for our sins, but we’re meant to love him enough not to be gay and upset him?'

I read it correctly. It's not as if this is unique to you by the way. This conflation is the absolutely standard discourse in western countries and of course it's not an accident. The only thing I don't know is whether those who repeat it are aware of what they're doing or not. I think you've confirmed for you it's genuinely subconscious, which makes more sense for most people.

Genevieva · 11/08/2023 15:40

The Catholic teachings on sex are not standalone or arbitrary. They are an inevitable consequence of Natural Law, which governs all aspects of Catholic understanding of God’s creation and how humanity should behave within it. I don’t think you can truly be a Roman Catholic unless you accept Natural Law.

crushercreel · 11/08/2023 16:06

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/08/2023 15:32

@pointythings This is what you said:

'So he made some of us gay, as a punishment for our sins, but we’re meant to love him enough not to be gay and upset him?'

I read it correctly. It's not as if this is unique to you by the way. This conflation is the absolutely standard discourse in western countries and of course it's not an accident. The only thing I don't know is whether those who repeat it are aware of what they're doing or not. I think you've confirmed for you it's genuinely subconscious, which makes more sense for most people.

I've come across Christians who say being gay is a sin. And given that OP and people like @SirSmellyJohn are talking about changing sexuality and no longer being gay or bi, I don't think it's completely misrepresenting their positions. Not to the point where you can smugly call people liars.

pointythings · 11/08/2023 16:16

Pollyputhekettleon · 11/08/2023 15:32

@pointythings This is what you said:

'So he made some of us gay, as a punishment for our sins, but we’re meant to love him enough not to be gay and upset him?'

I read it correctly. It's not as if this is unique to you by the way. This conflation is the absolutely standard discourse in western countries and of course it's not an accident. The only thing I don't know is whether those who repeat it are aware of what they're doing or not. I think you've confirmed for you it's genuinely subconscious, which makes more sense for most people.

I have just checked all my posts on this thread and nope, it wasn't me who said that. 🙄

zoomingale · 11/08/2023 16:28

I'm still curious to know what the 'effects' of 'carrying on with it' are.

pointythings · 11/08/2023 18:55

zoomingale · 11/08/2023 16:28

I'm still curious to know what the 'effects' of 'carrying on with it' are.

Me too. I mean, there's the obvious one of going to Hell, but that only applies if you believe there's such a thing. Quite interested to know what the others might be in OP's opinion.