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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

OP posts:
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10
HRTQueen · 27/07/2023 01:15

I believe her it’s appalling what happened to her

and I’m glad it’s being given so much media coverage we should be all very very concerned there are too many policemen that are violent/ sexual predators not defending the good police

Ponkyandthebrain · 27/07/2023 01:27

It would be lovely to do a personality test but we can’t!

I do think there is some element of deliberate sensationalism here about strip searching. The first two incidents are not strip searches. It’s horrible to have to remove clothes for welfare reasons for the person in custody and the female officers who have to do it. I think there’s maybe a debate to be had there about how best to keep people safe and preserve dignity but equally it’s not always seen what lengths people will sometimes go to using something like clothes to do themselves harm. Most custody suits have mental health practioners based in them now which is helpful. Camera cells assist but there isn’t a guarantee of them being constantly watched if for example an urgent incident happens.

The last one is a search of some kind but technically under PACE removing shoes is a strip search. It just means outer clothing not necessarily intimate areas which is a different procedure. It’s difficult to assess what’s happened there based on the article.

I don’t think there’s evidence of an organisational cover up as they tried to refer the complaint to the IOPC who sent it back and they have now sent it the IOPC again since this article. I think at the very least she’s a potential sexual assault victim suffering a mental health episode and shouldn’t have been in custody. Albeit they will get to the bottom of why that has happened and what should have been done differently. I hope there’s nothing more sinister but the investigation will bear that out. It’s unlikely for something sexual to be done to anyone
in custody in my experience as it’s a such busy noisy environment where you’re never alone with a prisoner let alone male to female. But I hope I am not wrong. Evidently she had a medical and all police officers DNA is on file. There would be no excuse for male DNA whatsoever rin an intimate area as any removal of clothes is same sex.

Nat6999 · 27/07/2023 02:31

After my experience of South Yorkshire Police I lost all respect for them & wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. When the enquiry for my rape case was going on, I had a male DS shouting in my face that I was lying at my mum's home, my mum threw him out.

Ponoka7 · 27/07/2023 02:32

There's been evidence of strip searches being used as punishment in female prisons. Excessive strip searches have been a factor in most suicides in female prisons. There were interviews with women and there was no way that the strip searches could be justified. Also the Police lied about the doctor attending, there's no excuse for that.

IncompleteSenten · 27/07/2023 02:41

KarmaStar · 26/07/2023 23:07

Let's get the facts first.
It's been sensationalized.
The police do a very difficult job and are always under attack.
But you get scared,worried who do you call?the very people who risk their lives every day for little or no thanks.
Don't judge or comment until you have all the information required to start accusing the police.

Well the facts currently available are the video and stills of her being stripped and left topless, medical evidence of sexual injury, three hours of missing footage and a former chief superintendent who has viewed the available footage and the custody records, said there are "glaring inconsistencies and is of the opinion that her claims are credible.

None of that appears sensationalised.

I think that's deeply concerning.

IncompleteSenten · 27/07/2023 02:43

There is something very very wrong with the police on an institutional level and that can only be changed if people stop trying to deny it and cover for it.

Ponkyandthebrain · 27/07/2023 03:10

I’d interested to read about that and I think I will but it’s not my area I’m a police officer not a prisoner guard so I couldn’t necessarily compare the two. The laws that guide strip searching for police are 40 years old and really need updating. But it does annoy me when something a described as a strip searched when it isn’t. Sometimes in exceptional circumstances clothes are removed for someone’s welfare to ensure they can’t use them to cause harm to themselves. I don’t want to overly focus on it as a narrow issue here though because whether she was sexually assaulted by a police officer or not and I hope she wasn’t there’s clearly an investigation to be made either internally or by the IOPC and I hope she has some answers about what happened to her.

Huromjuicemaker · 27/07/2023 03:37

From the article:
"Police broke into her home in the early hours of 5 February 2021, and arrested her after she knocked the glasses off a female officer's face. They were following up a welfare callout over a woman high on cocaine. Over the next 40 hours or so, Zayna - who has waived her right to anonymity - would be taken to and held at a police station."

I would like to know more about these circumstances, not because I would like to find an excuse to blame Zayna, but because it sounds to me like the police have gone in like a bull in a china shop and escalated the situation to peak violence and then used their powers of arrest to exact a vindictive revenge.

In other words standard operating procedure.....

ArcticSkewer · 27/07/2023 04:21

Further detail on the case in the Telegraph
"Her medical report states: “Miss Iman does not have any prior history of mental disorder, she has been admitted with an acute psychotic episode which has resolved without treatment.

“It is highly likely that this is drug-related to ‘the date rape drug’ which led to a sexual assault.”

Ms Iman said she experiences flashbacks about her ordeal and said that was why she first asked for footage of her detention along with custody logs using a subject access requ"est.

Poppyblush · 27/07/2023 05:28

The full facts are NEVER in the media.

Original poster
Dovetail40 · 27/07/2023 06:13

KarmaStar · 26/07/2023 23:07

Let's get the facts first.
It's been sensationalized.
The police do a very difficult job and are always under attack.
But you get scared,worried who do you call?the very people who risk their lives every day for little or no thanks.
Don't judge or comment until you have all the information required to start accusing the police.

The facts are in the article. Read it.

You are the reason why many víctims are scared to come forward.

I believe her.

The police need to be held to account.

Why was it a struggle to get all the footage and logs.footage which is missing and logs which are factually incorrect.

OP posts:
Snugglemonkey · 27/07/2023 07:35

KarmaStar · 26/07/2023 23:07

Let's get the facts first.
It's been sensationalized.
The police do a very difficult job and are always under attack.
But you get scared,worried who do you call?the very people who risk their lives every day for little or no thanks.
Don't judge or comment until you have all the information required to start accusing the police.

There are plenty of facts known about this case that are very disturbing that I will absolutely judge!

Naunet · 27/07/2023 07:36

KarmaStar · 26/07/2023 23:07

Let's get the facts first.
It's been sensationalized.
The police do a very difficult job and are always under attack.
But you get scared,worried who do you call?the very people who risk their lives every day for little or no thanks.
Don't judge or comment until you have all the information required to start accusing the police.

Oh do pack it in. This is outrageous, disgusting behaviour from Manchester Pooice.

SerendipityJane · 27/07/2023 07:38

Twite · 26/07/2023 23:23

This is appalling and shocking. Why is it not on BBC news?

Police bunch of corrupt thugs ?

This is not news. It's everyday life.

BreehyHinnyBrinnyHoohyHah · 27/07/2023 07:40

We keep being told it's just one bad apple in the police but it seems the entire orchard has gone bad.

The only person who I know from school who joined the police was a bully and all round horrible individual so it doesn't surprise me.

Jifmicroliquid · 27/07/2023 07:41

If they have nothing to hide they should produce the missing CCTV footage. It’s shocking that as a woman we can’t even rely on the police for safety.

Naunet · 27/07/2023 07:46

I see why the police are called the Filth now, it suits them. Repulsive institution, something needs to urgently be done about them, they clearly think they’re above the law.

blahblahblah1654 · 27/07/2023 07:49

This is terrifying. It puts me off reporting anything. What's more disturbing is they seem to pick on the most vulnerable women as they don't think they will report it. Imagine how many other incidents have occurred country wide that haven't been reported.

SerendipityJane · 27/07/2023 07:51

This is terrifying. It puts me off reporting anything.

Well how else are they going to bring the figures down ? I mean solving and preventing crime ? Get real !

WestwardHo1 · 27/07/2023 07:54

yesigotyourletter · 27/07/2023 00:43

Disgusted, but not surprised. No, it’s not all police officers, but it’s far too many that are on a power trip and have a superiority complex. That poor woman. I hope she’s okay and gets justice, although I sadly very much doubt she will.

It's because most police officers are male that we get the defensive NAPOALT isn't it? A variation on NAMALT. No they are not ALL like that, but enough of them ARE so as to make it a problem, and to make women not trust them.

Let's not minimise this.

I no longer trust policemen generally.

Warszawa · 27/07/2023 07:59

I've heard of many cases where strip searches seem to have been used as a weapon. There used to be a you tube channel called crime bodge that exposed such cases - it's been taken down predictably.

AnSolas · 27/07/2023 07:59

KarmaStar · 26/07/2023 23:07

Let's get the facts first.
It's been sensationalized.
The police do a very difficult job and are always under attack.
But you get scared,worried who do you call?the very people who risk their lives every day for little or no thanks.
Don't judge or comment until you have all the information required to start accusing the police.

This is a police force which engages in a work pratice of a legal assault, a legal "sexual" assault.

If I am giving anyone that power I have the right to comment and demand that the people involved can prove that there was no actual reason to ever have the option to start acusing them of anything.

And senior management can fuck right off it they think that I am going to look at a "strip search to prevent harm to the inmate while being held for an investigation" as a different process to "strip search to prevent harm to the inmate who was arrested during an social welfare check to prevent harm to the inmate".

JMSA · 27/07/2023 08:04

I always had the upmost respect for the police, and my dad was a prison officer all his years.
However a friend wanted to report her ex husband for harassment, and I was there to provide moral support. The police - one man and a woman - came to her flat so that she could make a statement.
Well, that was an eye-opener. I swear on my life that if we'd have dragged two random people in off the street, they'd have done a better job than these two. The woman who looked about 15 uttered not one word the whole time we were there, and was gazing into my friend's fish tank the whole time. The man was equally useless and kept saying that it was my friend's word against her ex husband's. I was gobsmacked. A real 'did that really happen?' experience. I honestly cannot stress how inept they were, not even when my friend told them 'but he had me pinned up against the wall!' And there was absolutely no follow-up.

Simonjt · 27/07/2023 08:07

SerendipityJane · 27/07/2023 07:51

This is terrifying. It puts me off reporting anything.

Well how else are they going to bring the figures down ? I mean solving and preventing crime ? Get real !

If no one had called the police on this woman we would have one less rape victim.

They can bring figures down by not being racist, homophobic, sexist rapists for a start, if they also do that fewer people would be scared of them. I for one would never willingly have contact with the police in the UK, its far too dangerous.

User98866 · 27/07/2023 08:11

I completely detest the police and always have because I had experience of extreme police corruption back in the late 90s. It’s actually a relief for me to see public opinion turning. For years I’ve been shot down in arguments by the few bad apples sentiment. This woman has been treated appallingly as she was clearly a victim who should have been in hospital not a cell.

Its not clear if she’s suggesting the the police drugged her, or if she was drugged already (which seems obvious as that’s why they were called) and that they took advantage. But given that she was already drugged when the police arrived she could have been sexually assaulted before they arrived. I fear if an officer took advantage it would have been before they arrived at the station and it will never be proved.