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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

OP posts:
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10
Begsthequestion · 27/07/2023 11:28

KarmaStar · 26/07/2023 23:07

Let's get the facts first.
It's been sensationalized.
The police do a very difficult job and are always under attack.
But you get scared,worried who do you call?the very people who risk their lives every day for little or no thanks.
Don't judge or comment until you have all the information required to start accusing the police.

What a way to respond to a report of a woman being sexually assaulted.

Not a drop off empathy in your entire post.

Mind you, it must be hard to say anything useful with your tongue stuck so far up the arses of the men who did this.

AnSolas · 27/07/2023 11:36

BitOutOfPractice · 27/07/2023 10:39

@Dovetail40 I've asked for a TW to be added to this thread and I think you should warn people about the content of links before you ask people to watch, as a kindness.

@Dovetail40 anybody too young to work out that this is not an " and she lived happy ever after " issue should not be on the internet unsupervised.
Hash tag Be kind

zooopta · 27/07/2023 11:39

Feel sick reading that.

Agree there needs to be a TW

Those poor women should have never been treated like that. Fucking disgusting what has happened to her. Just awful

Soontobe60 · 27/07/2023 11:41

AnSolas · 27/07/2023 10:07

You are suggesting that there was a criminal event and the police decided
a) not to inform the victim?
b) not to interview the victim?

At what stage do you think that the police should disclose that she may be called as a witness to a crime?

How would you deal with that as member of a jury?

The defence says "she said yes ...."

Show quote history

I’m suggesting no such thing. The incident has already been, or is in the process of being investigated, it says so in the links posted. If the investigation was carried out and no crime was found to have been committed, then clearly any video that identified officers would have to be redacted. If the investigation is still ongoing then the same applies.
Clearly there are things that need to be done to get to the truth. Id hope there would be an external, impartial investigation now, because any doubt around the actions of police officers should be minutely scrutinised.

Soontobe60 · 27/07/2023 11:45

AquamarineGlass · 27/07/2023 10:28

Did you even read the story where the Head of the GMP says he thinks she was raped by an officer???

Show quote history

He’s an EX police officer, therefore does not have any access to any evidence. His opinion is as informed as yours or mine.

Original poster
Dovetail40 · 27/07/2023 11:52

Soontobe60 · 27/07/2023 11:45

He’s an EX police officer, therefore does not have any access to any evidence. His opinion is as informed as yours or mine.

Show quote history

I think he may have had more information from the victim then the public have seen.
I also doubt he would have reached such a conclusión lightly with his background.

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 27/07/2023 11:55

Dovetail40 · 27/07/2023 11:52

I think he may have had more information from the victim then the public have seen.
I also doubt he would have reached such a conclusión lightly with his background.

Show quote history

No doubt. But he’s still making assumptions though.

Original poster
Dovetail40 · 27/07/2023 12:00

Soontobe60 · 27/07/2023 11:55

No doubt. But he’s still making assumptions though.

Show quote history

It was clear she has been mistreated by the Manchester Police.
The other sexual accusations easily could be eliminated if footage was given to the victim.
They weren't.
Hence why she has bravely gone public.

OP posts:
spuddel · 27/07/2023 12:01

It's an awful story. The clip says the police broke in to her house so not sure what preceeded it, if she or someone else rang them first? But the gaps in the film and the strange order do look suspect. Also, someone on drugs in a bad state surely shouldn't be left face down half naked alone in a cell? Very worrying.

Eupemiaroses · 27/07/2023 12:02

What I find most interesting about this thread is the posts from what appear to be police officers (or police staff) who are rushing to minimise what happened and think of excuses and flaws in this woman's story. Totally ignoring actual medical evidence and the facts as they appear.

I believe that's what wrong with the police force. You may sit around aghast that you as a police officer would never condone sexual assault but here you are, doing exactly that. Making excuses for other officers despite evidence to suggest the contrary. I imagine it's easy to become desensitized in the force and to become part of the 'lets stick together' culture but unfortunately, that's how these things happen. That's how other proven rapists in the police force have got away with it for so long. That's how we have situations such as the man who was imprisoned for nearly 20 years incorrectly because the police force deliberately fiddled with the evidence to ensure he was convicted. Let's also not forget it was only a couple of months ago a police officer beat a suspect black and blue until he was unrecognisable while his female partner just watched.

The police are corrupt. It's not just a 'few bad apples'. Yes maybe only a few bad apples are rapist's, murderers and enjoy beating civilians, but all those who stand by them, including every police officer on this thread clutching at straws are the problem. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Soontobe60 · 27/07/2023 12:03

Eupemiaroses · 27/07/2023 12:02

What I find most interesting about this thread is the posts from what appear to be police officers (or police staff) who are rushing to minimise what happened and think of excuses and flaws in this woman's story. Totally ignoring actual medical evidence and the facts as they appear.

I believe that's what wrong with the police force. You may sit around aghast that you as a police officer would never condone sexual assault but here you are, doing exactly that. Making excuses for other officers despite evidence to suggest the contrary. I imagine it's easy to become desensitized in the force and to become part of the 'lets stick together' culture but unfortunately, that's how these things happen. That's how other proven rapists in the police force have got away with it for so long. That's how we have situations such as the man who was imprisoned for nearly 20 years incorrectly because the police force deliberately fiddled with the evidence to ensure he was convicted. Let's also not forget it was only a couple of months ago a police officer beat a suspect black and blue until he was unrecognisable while his female partner just watched.

The police are corrupt. It's not just a 'few bad apples'. Yes maybe only a few bad apples are rapist's, murderers and enjoy beating civilians, but all those who stand by them, including every police officer on this thread clutching at straws are the problem. They should be ashamed of themselves.

What do you suggest?

Eupemiaroses · 27/07/2023 12:05

Soontobe60 · 27/07/2023 12:03

What do you suggest?

Show quote history

That the bystanders don't just sit around and make excuses for their rapist and murderer colleagues would be a start

Original poster
Dovetail40 · 27/07/2023 12:07

Eupemiaroses · 27/07/2023 12:02

What I find most interesting about this thread is the posts from what appear to be police officers (or police staff) who are rushing to minimise what happened and think of excuses and flaws in this woman's story. Totally ignoring actual medical evidence and the facts as they appear.

I believe that's what wrong with the police force. You may sit around aghast that you as a police officer would never condone sexual assault but here you are, doing exactly that. Making excuses for other officers despite evidence to suggest the contrary. I imagine it's easy to become desensitized in the force and to become part of the 'lets stick together' culture but unfortunately, that's how these things happen. That's how other proven rapists in the police force have got away with it for so long. That's how we have situations such as the man who was imprisoned for nearly 20 years incorrectly because the police force deliberately fiddled with the evidence to ensure he was convicted. Let's also not forget it was only a couple of months ago a police officer beat a suspect black and blue until he was unrecognisable while his female partner just watched.

The police are corrupt. It's not just a 'few bad apples'. Yes maybe only a few bad apples are rapist's, murderers and enjoy beating civilians, but all those who stand by them, including every police officer on this thread clutching at straws are the problem. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Well said.

Lots of i suspect police officer on here telling us their procederes despite there being footage of her been treated appallingly
Stop defending this behaviour.

The camera does not lie.

Leaving a vulnerable woman topless face down is disgusting.

The other accusations are yet to be confirmed.
However i wont be surprised with missing footage and inaccurate logs.

OP posts:
Felix125 · 27/07/2023 12:09

Eupemiaroses
I'm not making excuses - if she has been sexual assaulted or raped by an officer - then it should be fully investigated and that officer put before a trial and jailed if they are guilty.

I don't want to be part of a police force which has corrupt officers in it and I will ring them to light when ever i can.

AnSolas · 27/07/2023 12:12

Soontobe60 · 27/07/2023 11:41

I’m suggesting no such thing. The incident has already been, or is in the process of being investigated, it says so in the links posted. If the investigation was carried out and no crime was found to have been committed, then clearly any video that identified officers would have to be redacted. If the investigation is still ongoing then the same applies.
Clearly there are things that need to be done to get to the truth. Id hope there would be an external, impartial investigation now, because any doubt around the actions of police officers should be minutely scrutinised.

Show quote history

What do you mean by " incident"

Is your "incident" that the police data officer got the data request, viewed the footage and decided that a member of staff /other who had access to the cell had committed an offence upon the victim and this partial data request refusal was lawful based on the exception for criminal investigations?

Or is "the incident" something else?

Eupemiaroses · 27/07/2023 12:12

Felix125 · 27/07/2023 12:09

Eupemiaroses
I'm not making excuses - if she has been sexual assaulted or raped by an officer - then it should be fully investigated and that officer put before a trial and jailed if they are guilty.

I don't want to be part of a police force which has corrupt officers in it and I will ring them to light when ever i can.

But you are. You just don't see it. Tell me, is your usual approach to policing when a woman states she has been drugged and raped and her medical report supports this, to pick holes in her story and defend the potential attacker? Just trying to understand if your normal way of operating differs when it's your colleagues who are the potential perpetrators

beguilingeyes · 27/07/2023 12:13

NewspaperTaxis · 26/07/2023 23:44

Not a great day for Greater Manchester Police - it was down to them that the poor bloke got banged up in jail for 20 years under an unsafe rape conviction.

They and the whole area are corrupt, you wouldn't trust the local Council given how they dealt with the grooming gangs - The Sunday Times basically ran a story about how its Social Services 'pimped out' a vulnerable girl to an Asian bloke. It's just so odd, not merely corrupt, that doesn't cover it.

Why Rishi Sunak hasn't been all over it, or any of the other Tory PMs I don't know but perhaps it's quid pro quo - Labour might retaliate and ask how it is Surrey County Council seems to be bumping off the elderly in care homes to cut its costs. Local authorities and local police - it's a hornets nest, you don't go there.

On the other hand..if her bank account had been closed there would have been questions in the house.

Felix125 · 27/07/2023 12:14

Dovetail40
I agree - if the footage is there it should be disclosed, unless its part of an investigation. But the force should say that is the case.

She should not have been left face down in a cell

Like I said before - our force direct officers to cell watch people in this scenario. The consequence of doing this however is that you have occasions where the entire shift is in custody cell watching people and there is no one available to respond to emergencies.

Manchester may do things differently to us.

Felix125 · 27/07/2023 12:19

Eupemiaroses
I'm not picking holes in her account - where have i done this?
Where I have cast doubt on what she has said?

Her potential attacker needs to be investigated and if found guilty - jailed.

I am suggesting why the footage may not have been disclosed. They should have explained this to her rather than leaving a large gap in the footage which she was given.

Eupemiaroses · 27/07/2023 12:20

Felix125 · 27/07/2023 12:14

Dovetail40
I agree - if the footage is there it should be disclosed, unless its part of an investigation. But the force should say that is the case.

She should not have been left face down in a cell

Like I said before - our force direct officers to cell watch people in this scenario. The consequence of doing this however is that you have occasions where the entire shift is in custody cell watching people and there is no one available to respond to emergencies.

Manchester may do things differently to us.

Just reading the other thread about this. Is this your post about the recent miscarriage of justice...

"He was originally convicted by a jury, based on eye witness testimony. - the witnesses that were heroin addicts (not disclosed to the jury) and who only claimed to have been witnesses the day they were arrested for other offences (not disclosed to jury) which were later dropped after their testimony? Do you mean those witnesses?

Do we ignore eye witness testimony now and solely base rape trails on DNA evidence?

If that's the case - any rapist will have a water tight defence by saying "My DNA is present because we had consensual sex"

Still don't think you're part of the problem?

Eupemiaroses · 27/07/2023 12:21

Felix125 · 27/07/2023 12:19

Eupemiaroses
I'm not picking holes in her account - where have i done this?
Where I have cast doubt on what she has said?

Her potential attacker needs to be investigated and if found guilty - jailed.

I am suggesting why the footage may not have been disclosed. They should have explained this to her rather than leaving a large gap in the footage which she was given.

Did you not say she would have been given a full boiler suit when she specifically says she was just dressed in shorts?

Eupemiaroses · 27/07/2023 12:23

But never mind @Felix125, sounds like you've found a perfect career with your breadrin

Felix125 · 27/07/2023 12:23

Eupemiaroses
No - I said she 'should' have been given a boiler suit

Felix125 · 27/07/2023 12:28

Eupemiaroses

So - do we ignore eye witness testimony then and just reply on DNA evidence?

Eye witnesses who are prepared to take an oath and stand in court. Do we just ignore their evidence because they have a criminal past or ongoing criminal issues - for a trial as important as rape?

So what 'problem' am I a part of exactly?