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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not side with Sis over her ex

302 replies

PrFi · 26/07/2023 11:09

My sis & her ex (bil) were together 22 years & about 2 years ago they separated, they never married & have 2 DD 17 & 19. Prior to their separation we were always together as a foursome & saw each other several times a week plus my DH & he are very close friends. Their split was amicable & mutual, both just decided that relationship had run its course but we were all naturally upset about it. Bil moved into a flat that he owns & sis stayed in house, the house is bil’s (inherited from his parents) but he wanted kids to stay in their home so he moved out. My sis doesn’t work & bil has been paying bills, all child expenses, her credit card, her private pension & healthcare since he left but he now says once DD leaves for uni this will all stop as he’s not bank rolling her anymore & he has told my sis that once youngest DD turns 18 & leaves for uni he wants his house back. He has also met someone else which I did know about but didn’t say anything to sis as he said wasn’t sure how serious it was plus it’s not my business. Anyway all hell has broken loose now & my sis is threatening all sorts but main problem is that she has asked me to cut him off completely, he’s not to come to our home or speak to us on phone, we’re not to meet up socially or invite him to any functions etc. I don’t agree we should as he is my niece’s Dad & has done absolutely nothing wrong & he is very much part of our lives still but if I don’t I could lose my sis..I’m torn but I don’t think she’s right to expect this from us

OP posts:
Inkpotlover · 26/07/2023 12:45

PrFi · 26/07/2023 12:21

FWIW she did work up until 2010 so she didn’t give up work to raise the children she stopped working when he inherited a vast amount of money, property & business from his parents & he runs that business now

She was a fool not to push for marriage, and I say that as someone who isn't married to their partner of 20 years because I too never felt the need. We jointly own our house and I am independently wealthy because I work. If ever one of us came into money, we'd seek legal advice to get it ring-fenced.

I started out thinking your DSis was BU but now I think he is. Has he offered her any kind of lump sum settlement?

notacooldad · 26/07/2023 12:46

And that if she's married him- after that length he would have had to give her a hell of a lot more than 2 yrs subsidised living in a divorce settlement. She basically walking away from a 20 yr relationship with fuck all.......I would be bitter, even if her choices to try and get herself financially stable on the last 2 years hadn't happened

The important word you used here was 'IF'. If she got married. The point is she didn't. There's no point in getting married if you are going to get the same things as being married. She chose not to. Walking away with ' fuck all' is a consequence of that choice.
The sister has allowed herself to be funded and hasn't been proactive in getting a job or being financially savvy. That's no one's fault but her own.

We didn't ' break up' with my BIL when sister split. He was and still is a good man, a good uncle and friend. My adult lads go out for a pint with him each week and we all go out for a meal once a month. Why not, we are not divorcing him and he hadn't done anything wrong.

Mouldyfoodhelp · 26/07/2023 12:46

Dacquoises · 26/07/2023 12:44

I wouldn't put it quite so forthright! But I agree totally. I am wondering why her family aren't gently encouraging him to compensate her with some housing at the very least. You can afford to be magnanimous when you get to leave with all the assets. Their daughter/sister is effectively being left without a home. Aren't they concerned?

Also the daughters may be onside with him now but what happens when they realise how vastly different their parents fared in this relationship?

Like a 3 bedroom flat?

BettyBallerina · 26/07/2023 12:47

Time your sister lived in the real world. And no, I wouldn’t give in to her demands either.

PrFi · 26/07/2023 12:47

Inkpotlover · 26/07/2023 12:38

What, she thought that if their DC carried on living at home until their mid-20s he's still bankroll her? She's deluded.

Honestly I don’t know, part of the problem is she is unwilling to compromise, she wants exactly what she has now & we have tried telling her that it’s not going to happen. I think she should get something to set her up & he still might do that tbh, he’s not kicking her out onto the street

OP posts:
Dacquoises · 26/07/2023 12:49

@Mouldyfoodhelp , he's offering it rent free whilst she sorts herself out. It won't be hers

Spanielsarepainless · 26/07/2023 12:51

My DS tried similar emotional blackmail when her relationship split up. Her "counsellor" apparently told her she couldn't continue to see me if I was still in touch with her ex. Checked with a couple of serious therapist friends and that was BS. No counsellor would say such a thing, as I suspected. I would stay in touch with your BiL but keep it low-key. No one gets to dictate whom you are friends with.

MoroccanRoseHChurch · 26/07/2023 12:52

Where’s the emotional intelligence in backing someone who’s being a bellend???

Mouldyfoodhelp · 26/07/2023 12:52

Dacquoises · 26/07/2023 12:49

@Mouldyfoodhelp , he's offering it rent free whilst she sorts herself out. It won't be hers

It's still free

whumpthereitis · 26/07/2023 12:52

Dacquoises · 26/07/2023 12:49

@Mouldyfoodhelp , he's offering it rent free whilst she sorts herself out. It won't be hers

Maybe he’ll offer to sign it over to her, maybe he won’t. Telling him to shove it up his arse will make the latter less likely though.

The fact is that he didn’t need to offer that at all. He hasn’t treated her badly here, he’s actually been very generous in the circumstances.

NowItsLikeSnowAtTheBeach · 26/07/2023 12:53

PrFi · 26/07/2023 12:11

He has in no way shafted her, she’s been living in a 5 bed detached house with no mortgage or any bills & had a private pension & health care paid for plus a 5k credit card bill every month for 2 years. Whatever happens moving forward she won’t become destitute she just needs to adapt to a different lifestyle & get a job. I will always be there for my sister & if we eventually lose contact with him organically then so be it as he has a new gf & will move on with new friend circles/family etc but to be asked to just cut him off. I love my 2 nieces very much & this would be very hurtful for them

He hasn't shafted her. They amicably separated 3 years before their youngest turned 18, and he's paid for `00% of EVERYTHING and then some (£5k a month credit card bills included) for her to continue not working and living in his house with their teenagers. And he's ensured she had a private pension for all those years she wasn't working and private health care. And he's going to keep doing it for another year. And he's offered her a 3 bedroom garden flat to live in rent free while she sorts herself out after their youngest turns 18 next year.

She didn't want to get married either. She made choices, too. She wasn't shafted.

Changedname23 · 26/07/2023 12:53

PrFi · 26/07/2023 12:42

Of course I have empathy for her but it doesn’t change her situation. Cutting him off won’t make her situation any better.

There has been no demonstration of empathy on this thread. Lots of judgement from you and worrying about him.

VivaDixie · 26/07/2023 12:53

MayThe4th · 26/07/2023 12:43

I think the “she raised his children” argument became irrelevant ten years ago when the youngest started secondary.

But ultimately the women in these situations need to take some personal responsibility here. You live with, and have children with someone without being married, then you face the reality that if that relationship ends, or worse, if the other partner dies, then you end up with nothing.

Ending up with nothing is a choice she made when she didn’t push for marriage. If she’d wanted marriage and he didn’t she could have left, but she didn’t.

And the kids started secondary years ago so there was 0 excuse for her not being in work.

He’s been generous in paying all her bills, including her credit card and letting her live rent free in the house until the youngest turned eighteen. Some might say that he owed her that morally, but he could easily have told her to move out and legally she wouldn’t have been able to do a thing about it.

But again, if this was a man nobody would be saying that the woman should be giving him a flat.

Equally if a woman posted here that she’d inherited a house people would be urging her to never get married to her partner.

But this is mn where double standards abound.

100% this

Mpb011 · 26/07/2023 12:54

Your sister has managed herself very badly but I would imagine she feels scared about who will employ her

Tilllly · 26/07/2023 12:54

I think you need to be a bit strategic here OP

Tell her that you cannot cut contact with him because he will know it has been instigated by her. And that since her income is been cut off, she needs to keep him on side to get the best possible settlement out of this.

PrFi · 26/07/2023 12:56

Mpb011 · 26/07/2023 12:54

Your sister has managed herself very badly but I would imagine she feels scared about who will employ her

Definitely, it must be really daunting for her & I wouldn’t be afraid too if I was in her position. Rather letting it all overwhelm her she needs to do things a bit at a time. I’ve advised her to take the flat (he hasn’t put a timeframe on it) work out what her savings will cover & for how long & then start looking for work

OP posts:
JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain · 26/07/2023 12:58

WeWereInParis · 26/07/2023 12:24

If she was a man (even one who had given up work while the children were young to allow his partner to work) someone on this thread would have called him a cocklodger by now.

No one would have suggested giving him an inherited house.

Exactly. The sister sounds staggeringly entitled.

Losttheplotsometimeago · 26/07/2023 12:59

Your husband doesn't sound very pleasant either.

Thisisnowmyusername · 26/07/2023 13:01

Assuming you and your DH did agree to cut him off completely and told him that you were doing this at her request, then he could potentially think well if she is going to be nasty, then I will be too and won't let her live in the flat.

MayThe4th · 26/07/2023 13:03

OP what’s important here is the results of the pole. Only 28 people actually feel you’re being unreasonable, whereas the other 240 odd think you’re not.

Ergo, yanbu. Monumentally.

AWholeExtraRoom · 26/07/2023 13:03

You know, OP, my initial reaction to this was the same as yours (and I still don't think it's reasonable to ask you to cut him off, given all circumstances).

However, another way of looking at this is that 'morally' they were for all intents and purposes married for a very long time and there were two children from that union. Had they done a ten minute registry office appointment to legally marry she would almost certainly be entitled to half the assets, in recognition for her contribution to their union (facilitating his earning, raising children etc.)

Because they did not do that, he takes the view she is entitled to nothing but whatever he deigns to give her and evidently considered he is being very generous in providing for her for a couple of years. He may be technically correct that he owes her nothing under the law (he may not - I suggest your sister speak to a solicitor) but do you think that's morally right?

Your husband either thinks (1) those 10 minutes in the registry office morally make all the difference and she would then have been correctly entitled to half, or (2) that caring for children, running the home and enabling a partner to perform a well-paid job is worth nothing and in an ideal world shouldn't be recognised financially at the end of either a long relationship OR a marriage, and that your friend would be taken for a mug if he were forced to give half on divorcing too! (In which case, take a closer look at his attitude towards you!)

Your sister's ex seems to be coming out of this smelling of roses in your view on the basis he's "doing her a favour" rather than, in fact, arguably paying far less than is morally due to his very longterm partner and mother of his children on the basis of a (potential) legal technicality.

I don't think I admire him very much.

Just food for thought.

PrFi · 26/07/2023 13:03

Thisisnowmyusername · 26/07/2023 13:01

Assuming you and your DH did agree to cut him off completely and told him that you were doing this at her request, then he could potentially think well if she is going to be nasty, then I will be too and won't let her live in the flat.

Well we have addressed that with her, I would also add that if she has any hope of getting anything substantial from him she needs to improve her conduct because calling him abusive names & calling his gf a slag (she liked her before he had the conversation with her) won’t get her anywhere. We did think that he might end up giving her the flat although he hasn’t said that but she needs to apologise for the name calling & take the flat for now

OP posts:
Sittingonabench · 26/07/2023 13:04

I wouldn’t do what she asks, partly because of your long standing friendship but also because in the long run it will damage your sisters situation. Right now she is reacting. But when she calms down she will hopefully realise that she is not entitled to the things he is offering and that she needs his generosity to continue. She should have done many things different but to get the optimum result from the current situation keeping communication open with him and having people to mediate the emotions is what’s best for her and the children. If she does move to the flat though - she needs to understand that it is not a permenant thing assuming he isn’t giving it to her and eventually he will not be housing her rent free.

ScribblingPixie · 26/07/2023 13:04

Hopefully they'll move forward to a more amicable situation - in which case you'd have made a totally unnecessary move cutting him off. Best to encourage her to find out her legal situation surely and then support her in coming to terms with it? Maybe better if your DH has most of the contact with the husband until the dust settles?

Hibiscrubbed · 26/07/2023 13:09

PrFi · 26/07/2023 12:21

FWIW she did work up until 2010 so she didn’t give up work to raise the children she stopped working when he inherited a vast amount of money, property & business from his parents & he runs that business now

This changes things slightly. She likely won’t have made the decision to stop working unilaterally, so he has potentially shafted her on that score. She has been out of the jobs market for 13 years. It will be hard to get back in. Also her children we still small when she was encouraged/enabled to leave work. She’s not been sitting doing nothing.

He didn’t marry her (do we know why? You seem to know a lot about them). He was ‘generous’ because he’s very wealthy and we can all see how screwed she’s going to be when that is withdrawn.

Does she know about the new girlfriend yet?

Your loyalty clearly lies with him. That’s your call. But I expect you’ll feel the fall-out of your choices soon.

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