To not side with Sis over her ex

[PrFi]

My sis & her ex (bil) were together 22 years & about 2 years ago they separated, they never married & have 2 DD 17 & 19. Prior to their separation we were always together as a foursome & saw each other several times a week plus my DH & he are very close friends. Their split was amicable & mutual, both just decided that relationship had run its course but we were all naturally upset about it. Bil moved into a flat that he owns & sis stayed in house, the house is bil’s (inherited from his parents) but he wanted kids to stay in their home so he moved out. My sis doesn’t work & bil has been paying bills, all child expenses, her credit card, her private pension & healthcare since he left but he now says once DD leaves for uni this will all stop as he’s not bank rolling her anymore & he has told my sis that once youngest DD turns 18 & leaves for uni he wants his house back. He has also met someone else which I did know about but didn’t say anything to sis as he said wasn’t sure how serious it was plus it’s not my business. Anyway all hell has broken loose now & my sis is threatening all sorts but main problem is that she has asked me to cut him off completely, he’s not to come to our home or speak to us on phone, we’re not to meet up socially or invite him to any functions etc. I don’t agree we should as he is my niece’s Dad & has done absolutely nothing wrong & he is very much part of our lives still but if I don’t I could lose my sis..I’m torn but I don’t think she’s right to expect this from us

I don't think we'll ever know the ins and outs of their relationship and why they didn't marry but the consequence here is that one party is well off with two properties and the other one isn't and is facing having to start again from scratch.

Perhaps the fair outcome from this is if the flat is offered to her outright and she gets herself a job to start supporting herself. She will have to get her head around the drop in lifestyle but surely leaving one party with little isn't going to foster good relationships all round. As nice as he sounds he's come out of this very well. The mother of his children hasn't. She needs her family to back her up.

But had they married, she would have much more. Yes she's made mistakes and will have to live with them. I just think right now I would back away from BIL. He doesn't need to be at family parties.

Just tell.her what you've said here about contact.

Wow. This thread makes terrifying reading. And sorry, OP, YABVVVVVU. You're sister has been royally shafted (as so many women are) and not only have you been brainwashed into thinking her ex is a charmer, you think SHE is unreasonable?!

They were together 20+ years. If she had a little A4 piece of paper (that a few PPs on here need to remember TWO parties have to agree to get) she would be entitled to half of everything. The reason for that entitlement is she didn't work - presumably at her ex's agreement - is because she raised their children. Or is that worth nothing on Mumsnet?

Now they've split - irrelevant why. And he's been OHSOVERYGENEROUS 'allowing' her to stay in the family home until the kids are 18, but after that - "thanks for the years you sacrificed to raising my children, sorry we never got round to getting married, no off you fuck I have a new woman I want to move in".

Soooooo interesting he never pushed for marriage when he bought the home before her, isn't it? Almost as if he didn't ever want to share it....

I do think your sister is being foolish not to work, pretty inexcusable to be honest as the kids are grown. But you need to show some loyalty here.

He has absolutely shafted your sister. The fact your parents are inviting him to family events is weird. If they have to pick a team it should be their daughter.

And I'd be having serious words with my DH for telling him he's being 'a mug' to make a morally better decision that UK law, given he's already been morally fucking bankrupt for not splitting everything 50:50 after two decades.

And, FYI, maybe tell your sister to speak to a solicitor. In the UK if you raise a family in a home, aren't married and one person owned it before, you may be entitled to a share.

Out of curiosity where do the adult DDs stand on this situation?

I wouldn’t be dictated to as to who I was and wasn’t allowed to have a relationship/friendship with. And perhaps controversially I wouldn’t give a fuck about her precious feelings. She’s behaving like an unpleasant spoiled brat.

Be ready for her to make up some kind of narative about what an unpleasant person he was.

I’d be telling her to grow the fuck up and tbh I’d be quite prepared to lose her over it.

Because presumably he doesn’t want to, I suspect it will be given to his daughter’s eventually. Involved in what way? I’m not telling my husband anything of the sort, he can discuss anything he likes & have any opinion he likes & I wouldn’t take kindly to him telling me that.

But she has been shafted though! Did he ever propose to her?

1 party has 2 properties and a high income, 1 party owns no properties and no income. She got shafted, by him.

He's come out of this extremely well and everyone thinking he's the nice guy too. Not nice enough to give her one of his properties

And you’re all entertaining him and smiling along whilst his doing it! How can you not see the whole picture of this. Your acting like his a great guy by giving her some money- it should have been half hers! 20 years is a long fucking time!

Just to clarify my DH wasn’t suggesting he was a mug for allowing her to stay in the home or for support his children it was the credit card bill that he thought was ludicrous

Tbh yeah I don't think he should be invited to things like that now. The whole family need to move on.

This 100%. There is something really off about the BIL and this situation
OP and her OH are giving him way too much airtime. And parents inviting him to a party. So wrong.

He sounds to be a better person than your sister so if you want to remain friends with him I don't see a problem, presumably your sister expects to dictate to your husband too about his friendship. With such a selfish woman I'm surprised the relationship lasted so long, she's treated him like a walking cash machine. He needs to cut off support immediately for her pension, health care, credit cards anything not concerning their minor child.

I have a different view. Obviously your sister in in the wrong here but do you think you are staying great mates with BIL? He has a new woman and a new family and it is very unlikely you he will give any time to your family in a year. And your sister is alone, and no doubt wondering if it has all been a mistake and anxious about her future. I would support her and I would cut him off because she is your sister and loyalty matters.

Presumably she had a say in this arrangement? I mean, if she wanted to be married and he didn’t she was quite within her rights to leave.

People need to stop blaming the man for these kinds of situations when the woman, who is presumably a capable adult in her own right, has just as much of a say in this.

And no, there is absolutely 0 law which would give her a share in a house she didn’t own. If you’re not married and you split the only thing you are entitled to is child maintenance.

And interestingly if this was a woman who owned the house and the man was making demands on it people would be saying what a good idea it was that they had never arrived, and that he had 0 rights.

FWIW she did work up until 2010 so she didn’t give up work to raise the children she stopped working when he inherited a vast amount of money, property & business from his parents & he runs that business now

*never married.

Agree

Well if my husband was saying that sort stuff to my sisters husband I would absolutely be telling him to button it as she is family.

And it doesn't bother you that she raised his kids and now he has two properties and is allowing her to live in one rent free and walk away with nothing. I honestly can't believe I'm reading this.

Your sister has been an idiot, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't have your support. It's time to let BIL go.

If she was a man (even one who had given up work while the children were young to allow his partner to work) someone on this thread would have called him a cocklodger by now.

No one would have suggested giving him an inherited house.

I'm going against the grain here, but he's not very pleasant, is he.

Presumably SIL provided the childcare to enable him to work and continue his career.

Presumably she's made a home for them, and helped provide a good quality of life.

Yes, she's been foolish not to secure any rights by marriage, and foolish to depend on someone to provide her with an income, but he's allowed it and how 'fortunate' for him that he now gets to sack off his long term partner and mother of his children.

If I were her, I'd take legal advice asap whilst her child/children are still at home. She doesn't have rights of marriage but she may have some.

With your update about you not working but planning for it, I think it sounds like you consider your sister had it coming, OP.

Yes, she may have been foolish and entitled, but if their long relation was a good one, he's wealthy and they share children, he morally owes her some financial consideration, it not legally.

Well I don’t talk to my DH like that & vice versa. Their finances are not my business, the situation is what it is, of course I wish it was different for her but her lack of planning & forethought is her fault not his. We all told her for years she should work/get married/get a property in her name but she didn’t, I feel awful for her but that doesn’t change the facts.
If I cut him off completely then I could damage my relationship with my niece’s, they are very close to their father. Also there is no way my husband will even if I did as they are best friends & I cannot dictate who he talks to or has to the house