To not side with Sis over her ex

[PrFi]

My sis & her ex (bil) were together 22 years & about 2 years ago they separated, they never married & have 2 DD 17 & 19. Prior to their separation we were always together as a foursome & saw each other several times a week plus my DH & he are very close friends. Their split was amicable & mutual, both just decided that relationship had run its course but we were all naturally upset about it. Bil moved into a flat that he owns & sis stayed in house, the house is bil’s (inherited from his parents) but he wanted kids to stay in their home so he moved out. My sis doesn’t work & bil has been paying bills, all child expenses, her credit card, her private pension & healthcare since he left but he now says once DD leaves for uni this will all stop as he’s not bank rolling her anymore & he has told my sis that once youngest DD turns 18 & leaves for uni he wants his house back. He has also met someone else which I did know about but didn’t say anything to sis as he said wasn’t sure how serious it was plus it’s not my business. Anyway all hell has broken loose now & my sis is threatening all sorts but main problem is that she has asked me to cut him off completely, he’s not to come to our home or speak to us on phone, we’re not to meet up socially or invite him to any functions etc. I don’t agree we should as he is my niece’s Dad & has done absolutely nothing wrong & he is very much part of our lives still but if I don’t I could lose my sis..I’m torn but I don’t think she’s right to expect this from us

Maybe you don’t but my sis & I discuss it with each other. She knows things about my finances & I her

In England, I don't think whether the money was earned or inherited would have made any difference after a 22-year marriage with children. She would have been entitled to half of it. Regardless, it doesn't really matter whether I or OP thinks she is owed anything. The thing for OP to to consider is whether she wants a relationship with the sister because she's probably not going to have one if she chooses to side with the ex which is what she is doing.

I somehow doubt she'll be discussing much with you in the future given you clearly prefer her ex and value your friendship with him more than your relationship with her.

I’m not referring solely to the fact it was inherited. I’m talking about steps that can be taken to prevent family assets being taken into account in a divorce - trust funds set up in such a way to ensure this. While he may have access to the wealth, that doesn’t mean it is his.

It is indeed possible in the UK, so no, it isn’t a given that she would get half, even if they had been married fifty years.

Family or not, OP isn’t required to side with her sister, and especially not under the threat of disownment if she doesn’t do as she’s told. Personally I’d tell the sister to get to fuck with that one.

I’m team bil.

Imagine these threads “Split with dp two years ago and have been paying him 5k a month and let him live in the family home as he doesn’t want to work and I wanted to put our kids first. I now want my family home back and his family, who I was really close to, are now snubbing me and sil, who was my best friend, has blocked me. Aibu?”

Or

”i have just met a great guy. Wealthy, fun, kind. Has two kids from previous relationship but has been paying more than his fair share of maintenance and involved in his kids life. The only problem is he still funds his ex, paying 5k a month in credit card bills and letting her live rent free in his home. I’ve told him I’m uncomfortable with how entwined they are and he also wants to move on. He asked his ex that she gets on with her life and starts becoming more independent. She’s now telling everyone I’m a slag and refusing to move out of dp’s house. Aibu?”

Surely, as his common law wife (having lived together for 7+ years), she has a right to half of the family home and possibly half his flat if inherited before they split)? So her choice would be to sell up and buy somewhere new, or buy him out (if she can afford it/get a job or a lodger). If she's owed half of his flat, she could put that money towards the house. Also, I think that it's a bit mean to demand her sell the house as soon as the youngest goes to uni. 18 is still young. Where will they live during the holidays? I think that she should be a solicitor to find out what she is owed first. Personally I do feel as though you should support your sil over him. What your husband does is up to him though.

Common law marriage is a pernicious myth that, unbelievably, still catches some people out. Outside of marriage, there is a very limited scope for redistributing legally owned assets and it generally depends on having made an identifiable financial contribution.

@Oioicaptain if they are based in the UK there's no such thing as common law marriage.

Exactly.

A man could save the lives of the entire occupants of a burning orphanage but some Mumsnetters would try to find a way of making him a twat, purely for being a man. It's beyond tedious.

Whatever has gone on, she needs to now accept the reality of her situation and jump at moving into the 3-bed garden flat. At least she will still have enough space to have both daughters to stay and getting it rent-free will give her some breathing space if she needs to re-train and get into a better position to support herself. If there’s a chance he might let her stay there indefinitely, it’s worth everyone keeping him on-side but your sister may need a lot of hand-holding/therapy to get her head around her change in circumstances, by the sound of things!

That's a stretch. It is possible for a woman to not want to get married. Not all women who say that are actually secretly hiding their hurt that their partner hasn't proposed.

Oh, @Oioicaptain

In AUS perhaps. Show me one example of anyone in the UK benefitting from anything a a common law wife?

Such mid-information.

I don't think I'd have a different opinion in reverse. I can't imagine being very wealthy and having a relationship of several decades yet making sure our home and all assets stayed in my name. Then when we split up giving our kids a private income and brand new cars while putting my ex on notice that they had to start again from scratch. Our kids would be wealthy but my ex would be poor, and might not even be able to afford a place where they could come to stay. I guess maybe if I'd spelled out that was the way it was going to be right from the start it would be just about ok, but if there was any suggestion that we were a family unit who would be staying together for our whole lives then, no, I would be in the wrong.

I'm sure OP would know all about it if the house was inherited via a trust fund and not actually his. Obviously OP is not “required to support” her sister but if she chooses to side with the ex (which is what she is doing) then she can't expect to have a relationship with her sister in the future. Most people choose family and would cool things with their sibling if they chose to side with the ex after splitting up.

I don’t need to mention every woman that he’s casually seeing, there were quite a few after the first year. If it was a serious relationship then I would have & it’s her attitude & behaviour I don’t like

Ew. I feel for your sister, I'd hate mine to have that level of info about my ex and decide which bits I needed to know about. Imagine if the roles were reversed.

Not necessarily, as some people keep that more quiet. If that is indeed the case then who knows, maybe OP does know and hasn’t chosen to share it.

Either way, they weren’t married, so what she would or wouldn’t be entitled to is irrelevant. It’s not like she hasn’t got a good deal from him anyway. Children or not, I certainly wouldn’t be willing to pay for another adult to stay at home for two decades. Nor would I be willing to house them after we’d split, pay their debts, or pay into their savings and pension accounts. He’s been very fucking decent to her tbh.

if my sibling split amicably with someone that was also a friend of my family, but had an about face solely because they’d discovered they were no longer being bankrolled (whilst ignoring the fact they had ample opportunity to support themselves!), then I would not be inclined to jump to attention.

In answer to your original question: no, I don't think you should cut contact with your exBIL, and I think you need to tell you SIL to rein it in with pestering you about it. For many reasons:

• you are not an extension of your sister, you are a separate person capable of making choices. That she might feel that those choices impact her negatively is one of the "downs" of the ups and downs of family life. As she's learning, life doesn't always go your way
• she won't be receptive to it at this point, but it would actually be in her best interests for you and your DH to stay in touch with exBIL. You're going to need to be careful about what you tell her about him and vice versa (although this will get easier over time), but given the regard you both have for him and his thus-far decent behaviour, she's lucky to have the option of relying on you to help keep him on her side (even when she's mouthing off to him herself)
• she sounds ridiculously immature. Not just about this break up, but about taking responsibility for herself. She has a lot of growing up to do in a short space of time. She is totally unreasonable dragging you down to her level of immaturity with this cutting-off nonsense while she does that growing up
• he is the father to your two nieces. He's a decent fellow who's done nothing wrong. In no way does he deserve to be punished, and neither do your nieces with more family tension than necessary
• having said all the above, she is your sister and she could probably do with an advocate. She could do with you telling her to calm down, cut out the hystrionics, and get a grip. She could do with you talking to exBIL (if necessary) with a view to ensuring that the mother of your nieces isn't hung out to dry by him: given his wealth, he is in a position to ensure that the mother of his children has a comfortable roof over her head (big enough for her and their children), healthcare, whatever pension he's provided to date - and that's it. The rest is on her. She needs to earn her keep from now on. He will make sure her children are provided for so really she's very lucky she only has to think about herself. Without housing costs, she has to cover bills. That's it. If she wants clothes and a car and find dining, she needs to pay for it herself.

What a mess. But there's only one unreasonable person here and it's your sister. Stand by your principles. Utterly ridiculous to say "my sister first, always" - blood ties don't eradicate stupidity, foolishness, entitlement, petulant behavious, self-sabotage etc etc etc.

People aren't saying OP's DH or even OP should snub him though. Most people would expect less contact with a partners family if they split up though wouldn't they?

Well this is the thing, they separated 2 years ago so in that time she has been living an expense free life when he was under no obligation to do that so she’s far from being left with nothing as for the last 2 years she’s received around 120k worth of credit card payments not to mention no housing costs or household expenses. She could have got a job in that time but has decided not to. We have had a relationship with him for those 2 years & now he’s given her a deadline for when he is stopping he is a repulsive arsehole & we’re expected to stop all contact with him which would be fine if I felt it justified but I don’t

Not if they were still the best of friends, no.

And you got all this information about his perfection from your sister of course.🤔

Well I haven’t discussed it with him & she told me this before he told her, prior to this she barely had a bad word to say about him as I said their split was amicable & mutual

Ok i haven’t read all posts here but I can’t help but feel that the way you think and speak of her on here is presumably how you and your Dh speak of her to her ex, and I bet that has influenced how he is treating her now, or you are making him feel validated that he’s being doing your sister a ‘favour’ all these years and now she needs to stop being so entitled. Maybe if you were abit nicer about her maybe he would have at least given her a flat to own so she’s not shitting it so much right now but I don’t think you care about her well-being. Just seems like you’re all saying to her “tough shit” and “I told you so” which isn’t very supportive. We all make mistakes especially women if they have been conditioned in a certain way to accept certain things. It may seem on the surface she didn’t want to get married but it could be because it was embarrassing for her and she knew deep down her never would so just went along with it. Maybe I’m biased because in my community it’s always the man that ends up looking the saint because he’s a man and is able to charm everyone. Just something about this doesn’t sit right with me which makes me feel sorry for her. I doubt she’d be feeling too confident now having to get a proper full time job and ‘fend’ for herself like many sahm feel when they have to get back out there and earn so she’s lashing out maybe there are things going on behind the scenes you’re not aware of that are making her seem unreasonable I don’t know. Maybe she could do with someone in her corner. You just sound like you’re going along with whatever the men are telling you and making her the common enemy when maybe she’s been stupid and he’s been conniving but manages to paint himself as the good guy. Maybe.

OP, how old is your sister and what was her career before she gave up work? Is it something she could do again if she updates her skills?

He'd say it about himself too, OP, if you ever split up with him and expected half the family assets. I don't for one second believe that his attitude would be completely different because you have a ring on your finger and she didn't.