Page 15 | to think the penny hasn't dropped yet, for many people, that the trade in new petrol and diesel cars is really ending in 6 years

JadeClade · 2023-07-25T20:17:02+00:00

I think the price of second hand cars will go through the roof, at first, when new cars are no longer available, and people buying new homes now really do need to be factoring in where they are going to charge an electric car, and all sorts of preparations and plans are simply not being made YANBU - we need to be planning and preparing, as individuals and society. YABU- we don't need to think about it.

Messyhair321 · 26/07/2023 08:15

What I want to know is, if you live in a flat or don't have parking, how would you charge a car anyway? If you can't park near your house & can't access electric or you live in a rural area with no charging points? Can't see it working

onefinemess · 26/07/2023 08:15

JadeClade · 25/07/2023 21:38

I don't think there is any option for it not to happen, really

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Why?

Do you work for the Government?

Please, tell us what you know!

We're all dying to hear your inside knowledge! 😂

mambojambodothetango · 26/07/2023 08:17

YANBU and many replies calling your post scaremongering and that it isn't going to happen just go to prove your point. Going electric is a good thing - I think we can all agree on that, yes? It might not happen by 2030 but we should try to make it happen by getting prepared.

AngelinaFibres · 26/07/2023 08:17

JadeClade · 25/07/2023 21:30

I think it is a great thing that the number of cars on the road will be reduced.

It won't reduce the number of cars where I live because we are 7 miles from the nearest town and have absolutely no public transport. The last bus stopped running a year ago. Some people here have money. Lots of 'posh' people are asset rich and cash poor so won't be giving up their old land-rover anytime soo. Lots of people are farm workers,lower paid so certainly won't be buying a newer car of any kind. My sons both had very old cars when they first passed their tests. We all have decent cars now and will keep them for as long as possible. We have 2 people with electric cars in the village. They both hate them and would not buy another one. My husband is waiting for hydrogen. Electric cars are a fabulous example of 'green washing'.

Teateaandmoretea · 26/07/2023 08:19

mambojambodothetango · 26/07/2023 08:17

YANBU and many replies calling your post scaremongering and that it isn't going to happen just go to prove your point. Going electric is a good thing - I think we can all agree on that, yes? It might not happen by 2030 but we should try to make it happen by getting prepared.

Aren’t there other environmental problems with the batteries? Cars are much heavier meaning roads need replacing more frequently and on balance take more actual energy to move round. 10 years ago they thought diesel were better than petrol.

SherbetDips · 26/07/2023 08:19

No disrespect intended but I think your in dreamland if you actually believe that will happen.

the technology with electric cars is too young for it to be a long term solution.

onefinemess · 26/07/2023 08:20

MayThe4th · 26/07/2023 08:13

Electric cars are no better for the environment than petrol or diesel, it’s just different damage.

We need to change people’s mindset away from car use, not necessary car use to e.g. get to work/do their jobs/drive necessary distances, but this trend for driving to the corner shop half a mile away, doing the school run half a mile away, i have a family member who drives to his sister’s house which is in sight of his own. The level of unnecessary car use is ridiculous, and we need to get to a point where people start to realise that.

Too many people are reliant on their cars for journeys where there simply isn’t the need. Again, I’m not talking about absolutely necessary journeys, but a lot of people absolutely are using their cars for unnecessary journeys.

And with that decrease in use there will be an increase in people doing exercise of some sort, which will hopefully also have an impact on the obesity crisis.

And public transport needs to be increased in areas where having a car at the moment is a necessity. Because the UK is divided into two parts, te one where it’s necessary to own a car, and bigger cities where it isn’t.

I live just outside of London and the reality is that no-one needs to own a car for anything more than long distance travel or unless you have a driving based job. The number of people who drive the half a mile to the nearest station and park their car in the streets aroun it while they get the train to work is ridiculous. Where I live we have the infrastructure, there is a bus stop 200 yards from my house if people don’t want to walk to the station. but the station is a 15 minute walk max, and yet my neighbour drives his car there every morning, parks it, gets on a train to work, comes home, and drives it home. And before anyone says “you don’t know his circumstances, he may not be able to walk to the bus stop,” I think that given he goes for a five mile run four times a week and plays football every weekend, is constantly running around with the kids etc says everything we need to know about whether he is able.

We need t stop. Using the few people who genuinely can’t do these things as an excuse for those who can and who just choose not to.

Yeah, still won't happen though. Cars make money, and money talks, but feel free to walk everywhere.

The rest of us will wave to you as we drive past.

WimbledonHasselhoff · 26/07/2023 08:21

AgathaSpencerGregson · 25/07/2023 22:35

I have a better solution. Urban dwellers to be banned from car ownership altogether unless they have a disability or other compelling health reason. Rural residents carry on as they are.
No need for private transport if you have the facilities of the town on your doorstep is there

I live in a city. Walk and public transport almost everywhere. Car is used for days out of the city and holidays where it's simply not possible to carry everything (especially when camping and carrying tents etc.)
Not sure why I should go without whilst those who damage the environment far more, using a car all the time, should carry on as they please. I've notice it's people who live rurally who over rely on cars too, people in cities are much more used to walking longer distances, not driving to the corner shop.

Teateaandmoretea · 26/07/2023 08:22

I’m not talking about absolutely necessary journeys, but a lot of people absolutely are using their cars for unnecessary journeys.

How do decide what’s necessary and unnecessary? Interested to hear. I’m guessing that works fine but leisure not right? Bit like lockdown?

onefinemess · 26/07/2023 08:23

Teateaandmoretea · 26/07/2023 08:22

I’m not talking about absolutely necessary journeys, but a lot of people absolutely are using their cars for unnecessary journeys.

How do decide what’s necessary and unnecessary? Interested to hear. I’m guessing that works fine but leisure not right? Bit like lockdown?

This!

👏

Heronwatcher · 26/07/2023 08:23

Meh, I think it will work itself out. Electric cars will come down in price so more people can afford them, and then their previous cars will be available for the second hand market.

Or the date will be relaxed/ exceptions created nearer the time.

I don’t think it’s wise for people to be over-preparing now TBH as no one regally knows what the technology around charging will be- and do you seriously think everyone in a terraced house (literally millions of people) should sell up and move to somewhere with a drive and outside power source?

Moonsun88 · 26/07/2023 08:23

They also wanted vaccine mandates and passports everywhere, they wanted complete compliance and no questioning but that was dropped as too many people didn't comply and called out the bullshit! Many from the medical, psychological, and scientific community. Thank God. Same thing will happen with this.

HiHoHiHoltsOffToWorkWeGo · 26/07/2023 08:26

Messyhair321 · 26/07/2023 08:15

What I want to know is, if you live in a flat or don't have parking, how would you charge a car anyway? If you can't park near your house & can't access electric or you live in a rural area with no charging points? Can't see it working

It won't be the people in rural areas who are the issue - they invariably have driveways and can install their own charging point.

The issue will be with urban dwellers who don't have a driveway, and rely on on street parking, sometimes having to park in the next street. The councils will need to install multiple charging points on residential streets. As far as I'm aware my local council hasn't installed a single one yet. There's about 4 at Tesco Extra, but somehow I don't think that's going to sort the whole city.

Spendonsend · 26/07/2023 08:28

ontetwo3 · 26/07/2023 07:05

I have not read the whole thread, but why hasn't the government invested more in developing green hydrogen fuel technology? That is to say, there seems to be enormous potential for creating a virtually emission free fuel through electrolysis in which hydrogen is extracted from water.

Although the technology required for green hydrogen extraction is expensive at the moment, the advantages of having a readily available source of fuel that does not require the charging time of electric vehicles, and does not create the problem of how to dispose of huge numbers of electric batteries seem enormous.

I cannot understand why commitment to investing in the development of this technology would not appeal to a government who are (should be) keen to nurture new and innovative industries in this country.

There are people looking at hydrogen ' particularly commercial vehicles but it takes a lot of energy to make it. So i think the emissions are very clean but the process can vary in its greenness. Most hydrogen is grey which isnt that great for the environment ' it uses a lot of energy and doesnt capture the by product which is co2.

AngelinaFibres · 26/07/2023 08:28

WimbledonHasselhoff · 26/07/2023 08:21

I live in a city. Walk and public transport almost everywhere. Car is used for days out of the city and holidays where it's simply not possible to carry everything (especially when camping and carrying tents etc.)
Not sure why I should go without whilst those who damage the environment far more, using a car all the time, should carry on as they please. I've notice it's people who live rurally who over rely on cars too, people in cities are much more used to walking longer distances, not driving to the corner shop.

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Many of us 'rural types' don't have a corner shop to walk to. The nearest one us 7 miles away. No buses. Not one. Ever. Train is 8 miles away.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 26/07/2023 08:28

Heronwatcher · 26/07/2023 08:23

Meh, I think it will work itself out. Electric cars will come down in price so more people can afford them, and then their previous cars will be available for the second hand market.

Or the date will be relaxed/ exceptions created nearer the time.

I don’t think it’s wise for people to be over-preparing now TBH as no one regally knows what the technology around charging will be- and do you seriously think everyone in a terraced house (literally millions of people) should sell up and move to somewhere with a drive and outside power source?

It’s ironic because on another recent thread people were complaining about how green space gets swallowed up because British people insist on having a house with a garden unlike those sensible Europeans who are happy to live in flats.
But it turns out living in a flat or terrace is just bad planning and we should all be moving to houses with driveways so we can charge our evs.

onefinemess · 26/07/2023 08:30

mambojambodothetango · 26/07/2023 08:17

YANBU and many replies calling your post scaremongering and that it isn't going to happen just go to prove your point. Going electric is a good thing - I think we can all agree on that, yes? It might not happen by 2030 but we should try to make it happen by getting prepared.

Please do some basic research on the environmental impact of an EV.

Lithium mining makes an oil rig look like a solar panel.

SleepWouldBeADream · 26/07/2023 08:30

An entirely selfish and slightly unrelated question but I was planning on starting driving lessons again next year. I’ve always struggled with a manual but almost passed in an automatic a few years ago (nerves got to me!)
Is it worth me taking manual lessons if my future car is likely to be an electric one? My work offer a pre tax discount on leasing packages.

supersop60 · 26/07/2023 08:31

PurpleButterflyWings · 25/07/2023 21:25

Not gonna happen. Very few people can afford £30K plus for a new electric car, and the infrastructure is just not there. I have seen many news reports and documentaries this past couple of years, one just tonight - about how there are way WAY too few electric charging points for electric vehicles.

They take too long to charge too. 6-10 hours some of them. Even if it's reduced to half an hour, we cannot realistically have a society where every car takes half an hour to 're-fuel.'

Everyone having electric vehicles by 2030 is not going to happen.

You don't have to get a new EV. A 2nd hand one atm could cost about £8K.
Many people will be able to charge at home overnight (Octopus do a low rate for ev owners)
On the road, it's possible to get 80% charge in 40 mins. For our car, that gives us about 180 miles.
New chargers are being added all the time. In 6 years time, the charging landscape will be very different.
And if you don't want an ev, there will be 2nd hand diesel and petrol cars around for years. Buy a new one in 2029 and it could last you ages.

Teateaandmoretea · 26/07/2023 08:31

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 26/07/2023 08:28

It’s ironic because on another recent thread people were complaining about how green space gets swallowed up because British people insist on having a house with a garden unlike those sensible Europeans who are happy to live in flats.
But it turns out living in a flat or terrace is just bad planning and we should all be moving to houses with driveways so we can charge our evs.

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Indeed. I’m sure EVs are going to work well in Naples and the like. Went recently and there is literally not an EV in sight. Bizarrely it’s not a place that is particularly easy to walk round either.

literalviolence · 26/07/2023 08:32

I'm not sure what plans you are talking about? Move house to near work then never change job? Stop having mobility issues so you can use the train? Get rich so you can buy expensive car (but tricky when you can't change job). We need leaders to make changes so people can afford green solutions and so we have the necessary infrastructure and laws (e.g. actual proper flexibility working so people can walk their kids to school then commute to work - they'd arrive after the current usual starting times at the moment and employers often don't give a shit about work home life balance. Mine doesn't for sure (NHS)).

LimeCheesecake · 26/07/2023 08:33

Moonsun88 · 26/07/2023 08:23

They also wanted vaccine mandates and passports everywhere, they wanted complete compliance and no questioning but that was dropped as too many people didn't comply and called out the bullshit! Many from the medical, psychological, and scientific community. Thank God. Same thing will happen with this.

But in the UK the take up of vaccines was so high they didn’t need to mandate or have passports.

its not comparable- the government didn’t need to mandate because people conformed, not because so many didn’t. This is the opposite issue with EVs/petrol cars. People aren’t buying EVs in the numbers that naturally petrol cars are dying out (because if you sell more EVs than petrol, car companies would choose to stop or massively reduce production of petrol, if no one in the local area has a petrol car anymore, the petrol stations would close for lack of business etc - no need for government intervention).

HiHoHiHoltsOffToWorkWeGo · 26/07/2023 08:34

supersop60 · 26/07/2023 08:31

You don't have to get a new EV. A 2nd hand one atm could cost about £8K.
Many people will be able to charge at home overnight (Octopus do a low rate for ev owners)
On the road, it's possible to get 80% charge in 40 mins. For our car, that gives us about 180 miles.
New chargers are being added all the time. In 6 years time, the charging landscape will be very different.
And if you don't want an ev, there will be 2nd hand diesel and petrol cars around for years. Buy a new one in 2029 and it could last you ages.

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My concern is not so much how long you'll be able to buy petrol vehicles for, but how long you'll be able to buy petrol for.

I have a classic car, 50 years old and still going strong. Will we still be able to buy petrol 50 years from now?

onefinemess · 26/07/2023 08:35

SleepWouldBeADream · 26/07/2023 08:30

An entirely selfish and slightly unrelated question but I was planning on starting driving lessons again next year. I’ve always struggled with a manual but almost passed in an automatic a few years ago (nerves got to me!)
Is it worth me taking manual lessons if my future car is likely to be an electric one? My work offer a pre tax discount on leasing packages.

Auto all the way, even good old liquid fueled cars are all going auto.

DarkModes · 26/07/2023 08:38

They don’t work well everywhere, is the reality though. Living where it often is -15 or -30 and it’s completely unreliable. I certainly wouldn’t want that. I’d have to spend half the day charging it.