to think the penny hasn't dropped yet, for many people, that the trade in new petrol and diesel cars is really ending in 6 years

[JadeClade]

I think the price of second hand cars will go through the roof, at first, when new cars are no longer available, and people buying new homes now really do need to be factoring in where they are going to charge an electric car, and all sorts of preparations and plans are simply not being made

YANBU - we need to be planning and preparing, as individuals and society.
YABU- we don't need to think about it.

ok so insomnia has put me in a right fucking mood so I’m tired and ranty, but, Society is now really being bullied in so many different ways and it feels like so much of our freedoms are gradually being taken from us.

I can’t afford £30/40k for a brand new new electric car. I don’t want to take a loan out at 50 for one either, which is what most people have to do if they want a new car. These electric cars run entirely on computers, and computers are fucking unreliable and you’re forced to upgrade them every few years because they get old”,

I live and work rurally. I rely on a 4X4 for my work. I’m 30 miles from my nearest city. To get there by bus (no other public transport available) it currently costs me £20 for a day return.

chances are by the time this comes into force the NHS will have crumbled beyond redemption…so what will you spend your life savings on? A new car or your future healthcare or save for a care home to see you into old age? I heard on the news today that by 2050 (I think!) there will be about a 37% increase of people living with chronic illnesses. They don’t know how the NHS will fund it.

We’ll all be fucked over by the robots eventually anyway.

fuck I’m tired!

I hate the world.

The end.

I don’t think battery powered electric cars are the answer. Batteries are not sustainable or efficient enough to power an entire countries worth of vehicles. There are several other issues with them which have already been mentioned on this thread.

I believe we are in the stage of “wait for the next big innovation that actually solves the problem”. That could be a different type of car, or a slow revolution of better public transport. Who knows.

While we need some deadline to put a fire under the research and innovation, realistically we can’t just ditch our current system (ie ICEs) until we are making actual headway on replacement infrastructure. And like others, I doubt that will be realised by 2030.

I think we are actually going to have to get used to the idea of not having cars at all

well then you need to get used to a much lower standard of living. So many workers depend on cars for their jobs due to hours/location etc.

Those planning to buy a new gasoline/diesel vehicle just before the deadline, what do you think will happen 10 years down the line, once 90+% of vehicles on the road are electric? Do you think petrol will still be as readily available as it is now?

Personally, I'm planning to sell my petrol car in a few years while I can still get some money for it. Really don't see the point in hanging on to a dieing technology.

Ha ha, I literally say this Betamax comment as well!

Or, to rephrase, "I think it's a great thing that poor people will no longer be able to have a car." Beer that's what it boils down to.

Maybe people will be having to wfh or work closer to home like they did years ago

Oh I see you've a crystal ball 😂

You're the one spouting bollocks I'm afraid. If you don't already know, we don't have an indefinite supply of oil to mine. That also applies to rare earth minerals, but I'd imagine the rate at which we use oil may dry things up sooner.

Strangely, my supplier is mostly renewable so my car is charged from green electricity. When I go solar myself, I'll not need much from the grid at all.

Battery tech is changing constantly. Lithium is being dropped in favour of more sustainable materials.

The final point that you're obviously missing is that the target isn't for us to be 100% EV by 2030. That would be stupid. The target is to stop selling purely ICE vehicles by 2030. Hybrids by 2035. The phase out from there will take another 20 years. Only a complete fool would think that the infrastructure won't change in 30 years. A huge amount has happened already.

Sorry did you mention bollocks?

Maybe if car ownership has dropped there will be a different model of transportation? Maybe driver less Ubers will be cheaper and very available?

Maybe people will be having to wfh or work closer to home like they did years ago

Years ago what was the population size, the ratio of houses vs population, the average age of the population?

Are salaries going to increase, will the housing be built to allow workers to buy near their workplaces.?

I’ve not read the whole thread, so I don’t know if anyone else has said this - we need a total rethink about car ownership. I don’t mean not having cars, but not having 2 per family that spend more than 80% of their time parked somewhere. Madrid, Paris and Berlin all have car sharing schemes now and we need much more of this, it would go a long way to reducing the massive over supply / under utilisation that we are facing right now. It won’t work everywhere or work for everyone, but it could still have a high impact. We are in a crisis and it needs creative thinking from both the automotive industry and us as consumers to address it!

I do like that OP realises there's two elections before then but only thinks that the outcome will be to improve public transport. Can you really not think of another thing that might happen as a result of that change of government, OP?

Maybe if car ownership has dropped there will be a different model of transportation? Maybe driver less Ubers will be cheaper and very available?

By 2030?

There is already a social care/NHS crisis which is all going to worsen as our demographic shifts. How is reduced car ownership going to impact this? My relatives were lucky & could self fund (state provision was non existent) care in the home. 90k before they died, think what costs will be like in the future just with the ageing population alone.

I recognise we need some form of change & care about the environment however we have a capitalist system & already high inequality. This will just entrench it which isn't good for society.

We are in our 60s so will only need one more diesel car, we plan to get a new one in the next couple of years or so. We use it to tow our caravan, our small EV won't quite manage that🤣 in fact the EV is a bit of a waste of space and only ok for local journeys.

How do car share schemes work for people whose children need to be in car seats (that includes most parents of primary age children so it's not really a niche group)? I think if we want to use car sharing widely we might need to exempt car shares from at least some of the laws about child seats (require an infant carrier for a baby and a simple booster for a toddler maybe?) There's precedent in that taxis are exempt from at least most of those laws.

Jesus wept. Some people are dense

It amazes me how some people survive, but being parents I'd have thought that you might appreciate the instant benefits of not causing millions of explosions in your car and spitting the exhaust fumes in everyone's faces. Most SUV's nowadays have exhaust pipes that are not a problem for adults but are perfectly positioned to push gas into the faces of toddlers in pushchairs or younger kids. Too many parents sit outside of school idling their cars without care for what they're doing to the fresh air. EV's can be powered by solar. An ICE car cannot. EV's don't use brakes much. An ICE car does. The human benefits are huge.

My EV has done 75,000 miles and going strong. Some of the first Tesla's have done 200,000 miles and still going. The original Prius' are still fine (those that are still on the road). Battery tech is proven to be reliable, hence the 8 - 10 year warranties. That's more than you get on an engine.

The battery reuse industry is already at $200 million and growing.

https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/ev-battery-reuse-market

I can't even be bothered with the rest of your nonsense as you can't even read, it would seem 🙄

@Lunar270 are you an EV salesman you seem very over invested

Agree, the deadline will move, then keep moving.

It will be another thing for people to moan about on here, boomers not downsizing because we need our driveways for our expensive electric vehicles, we won't be able to downsize to flats like people on here want us to do, nowhere to charge our cars

I live very rurally and farm but the kids and I could manage very well with an electric cargo bike for 90% of our journeys if the roads locally were safer. I would already have bought one if not for the safety factor.
So maybe for short journeys especially where there are safe route electric bike and mobility scooter type vehicles are part of the solution.
I don’t think the change will happen in 2030

How do people think we should sort out air pollution and the environment?

At the end of the day, companies put profit first. They make it convenient so that we chose the option that makes them money. So governments have to force things to get change.

The problem is that this government is doing it in a half arsed way (eg where’s the investment in public transport alongside the shift away from petrol and diesel) and where’s the investment in electric charging infrastructure? There’s no profit in it so government needs to step in.

Im sure this will be cancelled and then we’ll end up with no fucking movement on climate change because people put profit/cost first.

No, but it's astonishing just how clueless most people are and I think it's worth trying to educate or provide a more factual view.

Are you not invested in facts over fake news?

I, like you have both ICE and EV. I'm likely to buy another ICE car as I'm a petrol head. But for day to day stuff the EV is perfect. But I also take the time to actually find out what's correct. There's so much EV bingo on here it's quite funny but hey ho.

Ultimately I don't really care. I run a business so have taken full advantage of the incentives. The longer it takes the more likely the incentives will last, so in some ways all the fake news is doing me a favour.

I live in a town. The public transport is appalling. Event day there are complaints that buses are late or haven't turned up. People can't get to work, kids to schools. It's also impossible to get a direct bus to a neighbouring town.

I have not read the whole thread, but why hasn't the government invested more in developing green hydrogen fuel technology? That is to say, there seems to be enormous potential for creating a virtually emission free fuel through electrolysis in which hydrogen is extracted from water.

Although the technology required for green hydrogen extraction is expensive at the moment, the advantages of having a readily available source of fuel that does not require the charging time of electric vehicles, and does not create the problem of how to dispose of huge numbers of electric batteries seem enormous.

I cannot understand why commitment to investing in the development of this technology would not appeal to a government who are (should be) keen to nurture new and innovative industries in this country.

Well to be fair my definition of nearly new is probably not yours, probably about 5 years old