Grammar and teachers

[Usersooty]

I went to a popular theme park last week. Masses of school trips.

I heard so many teachers/TA’s speaking using grammatically incorrect language. It really shocked me and as we waited in (endless) queues I listened to lots of “we haven’t got no snacks”, “we’ll go toilet after this” etc etc.

I have never heard a single member of staff at my childrens schools speak like this. I’d be really concerned if they did.

It made me quite sad for the children being taught/supported academically by them.

I didn’t stare, I didn’t comment. I wasn’t rude at all. Prepared to get flamed, but AIBU to be surprised by this?

DGM left school at 14 from a small village school. She had a west country accent but spoke English correctly and was highly literate. She didn't like sloppy English spoken or written. She would have been horrified that teachers are not speaking, writing, and therefore not teaching correctly. She highly valued education.

Her DD, my aunt, became a highly regarded teacher in Australia after emigrating in the 1960s.

@Redlocks30 I suggest a massive hike in pay to increase the number of teachers and then hiring the best qualified.

Language is important. So is subject knowledge, safeguarding, confidence, kindness, patience, commitment…. Language and grammar are just part of the picture.

I started this thread because I really was taken aback at the language I heard in a public place from members of (primary school) staff. It’s not the norm in any school my dc have been at and it’s not the norm in the schools I work in (not as a teacher).

Wearing a lanyard on a school trip doesn't necessarily mean they were teachers or TAs. The lanyards may have been used as a mark of identification as part of the group.

From the update posts it sounds like the OP is seeking a thread to rubbish the education system and the staff within it.

@EnidSpyton it’s depressing isn’t it.

No, children learn at least two registers. Spoken language has its own grammer and written language has to be learnt separately. Nobody speaks exactly like they write.

@LolaSmiles Horrified that you’d think that. I have the utmost respect for the people who work in schools - all of them.

I have a real problem with low expectations.

If I was PM, raising salaries in education would be right up in my top 5 “things to do immediately.”

I agree there should be a basic standard at least, but quite a few of the teachers at my DDs school spoke in the local dialect which is grammatically incorrect most of the time. Most people here would say “I were sat there” for example 😬

Disagree.
When my DC were in Primary school there was one TA who spoke appallingly - double negatives and 'you was' all over the place. And the classic 'you goin' yoofy tonight?'
There is a huge difference between accents (the way words are pronounced), dialects (a language specific to a geographical area), and bad grammar/sloppy English.
Is it not still part of the Curriculum that Children should know how to speak and write appropriately in different situations? To this end, teachers and TA should know how to do it too.

"teachers at my DDs school spoke in the local dialect which is grammatically incorrect"

No, that's not how it works. Dialects have their own grammar so 'I was sat there' is correct in their dialect (and mine actually so it's probably widespread). It may be non-standard, but it's correct in its context.

"There is a huge difference between accents (the way words are pronounced), dialects (a language specific to a geographical area), and bad grammar/sloppy English."

Sounds like you don't understand what a dialect is. Do some basic research and you will see that dialects have their own grammar.

How did their results change after that? On average...

" She didn't like sloppy English spoken or written."

Colloquialisms and dialects are not 'sloppy English'.

@AngryGreasedSantaCatcus I don’t actually know. But I know the head of year 11 grasped that children not doing any revision and then getting B grades was not as “amazing and brilliant” as children who were highly motivated to work hard and got straight A grades.

It was really just the top of the year - a B grade is a huge achievement for many children.

My supervisor showed the HOY the results from the children recognised as g&t (as it was then) at other schools. The message got through. This was 20+ years ago so I can’t remember what changed in that school (I wasn’t a teacher there).

Aah it’s my dialect too, and we actually say “I WERE sat there” rather than “I was sitting there”. I know it’s incorrect and have to stop myself saying it at work (not that I say it often).

Sorry I meant to quote this post.

"we actually say “I WERE sat there” rather than “I was sitting there”. I know it’s incorrect"

It's NOT incorrect. It's just non-standard. Your dialect is your dialect and nobody can tell you it's incorrect. It might just be inappropriate to use it in formal writing.

Kids code switch.

I teach in a school in the ME currently. Our students code switch all day, every day, between a) formal English like wot you need for exams, innit b) demotic Arabic as used in the family/on the street & c) classical Arabic.

They find colloquial & regional English quite funny, & pull us up all the time on our various similarities ('oooh miss! You said "wee problem" but you're not even from Scotland like Mr McDonald, he says that all the time?') & idiosyncracies ('miss, why are you telling me to "put wood in t'hole" when you mean "close the door"?').

I'm an English teacher. We love picking over how language is used. There's value in doing so.

Meanwhile, nowt 😉 wrong with 'yalla hammam!' or 'go t'toilet'. Both communicate.

@Redlocks30I suggest a massive hike in pay to increase the number of teachers and then hiring the best qualified.*

Well, I completely agree with you there.

If I were interviewing a child for this role, I would be focussing far more on their relationships with children, their ability to sing in French reasonably well, their attitude to colleagues. I wouldn’t exclude them just because they didn’t use Received English! You really are coming across as a snob now!

Where?

I do notice this, actually.
I have a bad habit of using a comma when really a semi colon is required.
My colleague (Oxbridge educated) says them instead of those. Eg..'where did I put them sheets?'
Plenty on SLT cannot use apostrophes or plurals, or they're /their/there.
Lots of 'he was sat in that chair'.

Not only off topic, but really showing your snobbery to connect speaking in a regional dialect to having low academic standards. It's the same snobbery that assumes children who speak a non standard version of English won't know how to write/speak the standard one in the contexts that require it.

I have a PhD in English. I probably speak grammatically non standard English every day, including to my children and I'm sure to the students I teach, too. I can assure you my academic standards are fine, thanks.

This thread is actually making me feel better about my accent 😂

@Soontobe60 that’s why I said all other things being equal. Both great candidates. Who would be chosen based on their language?