Grammar and teachers

[Usersooty]

I went to a popular theme park last week. Masses of school trips.

I heard so many teachers/TA’s speaking using grammatically incorrect language. It really shocked me and as we waited in (endless) queues I listened to lots of “we haven’t got no snacks”, “we’ll go toilet after this” etc etc.

I have never heard a single member of staff at my childrens schools speak like this. I’d be really concerned if they did.

It made me quite sad for the children being taught/supported academically by them.

I didn’t stare, I didn’t comment. I wasn’t rude at all. Prepared to get flamed, but AIBU to be surprised by this?

We code switch all the time (change the way we speak depending on who we're speaking to) and this is a skill that children with non-standard dialects develop over time.

What is the point of a teacher teaching the correct grammar in a lesson but then undoing that work by speaking incorrectly at other times?
It's called code-switching and many people do it in daily life.

A teacher with a Scouse accent wouldn’t bother me a bit.
Scouse is also a dialect that has non-standard grammar and regional phrases as well as an accent.

Someone can speak standard English grammar with a Scouse accent and use Scouse dialect. People will use either depending on the situation.

We teach the difference between standard and non standard English. They write using both depending on what they're writing and what it calls for.

I tend to use standard English as that's how I speak generally but many of my colleagues don't.

Not going to deny that the occasional 'gonna' slips put though!

Regional accents are not a new thing. Children the length and breadth of the land have coped with having standard English taught in school and none standard English spoken at home and/or in the community.

Literally since Adam were a lad.

Surprised to hear that teachers were queuing with the kids at a theme park. At secondary age the kids normally go around by themselves.

Slightly relieved that not everyone things I’m barking mad.

My dc have been taught by teachers with lots of different accents but never by anyone who speaks with incorrect grammar or using slang (other than mainstream words like “ok”)

Surely if they all did it it is a regional thing. Its not unusual for people to talk in a more relaxed and informal manner at a theme park, probably makes them more approachable for children. No I wouldn't mind.

It would depend where they're growing up. Spoken language is influenced more by parents than teachers. The dialect where I live would phrase it as 'go the toilet' which is different to the dialect I grew up with which is more standard and would use 'go to the toilet'. I use both phrasings depending on the person I'm speaking to.

@noblegiraffe primary age children. All of them. It was a theme park for primary age children.

Antoninus, yous is always informal English. It should never be used in writing (apart from possibly on social media if you are posting to an audience where most people speak the same as you) or in more formal situations, in my view.

It's not the sort of English that should be modelled to children in school, unless you aregiving it as an example of dialect speech and how it differs from standard English.

@tulippa maybe it’s me. If someone says “I’m going Spain” or “we did London” I inwardly cringe. Good grammar was so drilled into me at school and at home. It’s really 🤯 to hear people speaking like that.

There are lots of dialects and accents that don’t grate at all though. But in an education context, I would expect correct grammar.

It isn’t used in writing, never said it was. It’s a Scouse saying and very common in this part of the world

I grew up listening to and speaking three different dialects of English in different contexts, two of them 'non-standard'.

Later, I somehow managed to write an entire PhD thesis in standard English without a problem.

As an adult I can happily switch back and forth depending on the context I am in and to whom I am speaking. I am by no means unusual in my ability to do this.

You clearly don't know a great deal about language acquisition if you consider the use of non-standard forms of English being spoken around children to be a problem.

@Usersooty I think you’re getting a hard time here. I completely agree. Children learn to read and write what they hear. Accents and colloquial words aside, school staff can help develop language by speaking in full sentences. So on the whole YANBU

However, the school staff at this point of the year are were probably on their knees with exhaustion and tbh just stringing two words together was probably hard given the tiredness of the end of year and the stress of keeping everyone safe in a busy area- I couldn’t do it! This taken into account and given the circumstances, I’d cut them a bit of slack.

My class always learn pretty quickly that they need to include a preposition and a determiner in their request. I can't understand them otherwise 🤷🏻‍♀️😉

I think that what you say is right, OP. Children don’t just learn in a classroom.

Tbh I find it quite offensive that you think the only way to have ambition for your children is to throw off the history and culture of ones community (of which language is a big part) in order to be somehow better.

Yes most of us with regional accents have to learn to switch between our dialects sand standard English in part for clarity but also due to the prejudices that still surround regional accents and dialects.

An MP local to me has spoken out about how she is still mocked at Westminster because of her accent.

Accents/dialects are not wrong. They are just different.

@tellittotherubberduck to do a PhD requires a level of academic aptitude that many children don’t have.

I have no problem with accents. If it helps, all the children were from the SE (day trips from local schools).

I agree with this in theory.

I grew up.learnkng botha dk we generally used non standard English at home. However, now that non standard English is also standard on TV etc, a lot of children don't actually hear standard English being spoken at all.

Have to say, I agree and I'm a teacher. I cringe if colleagues make basic mistakes. It does happen and in an ideal world it shouldn't.

Using double negatives is incorrect English in modern English, and it cannot be excused by dialects as so many of you are trying. It is as bad as "I done" or "I seen" etc.

Examples of acceptable dialect words are canny, nowt (as long as you're not saying "I don't have nowt!") and beck, off the top of my head.

At my school the only staff that don't use the (incorrect) regionalisms are the ones educated abroad or in a completely part of England and the head, but even she slips up sometimes. While there is an expectation to use correct grammar at all times, realistically we'd have to shut the school down because of lack of staff if they were to get fired(or not hired in the first place) because of the way they talk.

It's not like there's an abundance of teachers at the moment.

@CremeEggThief exactly
“Using double negatives is incorrect English in modern English, and it cannot be excused by dialects as so many of you are trying. It is as bad as "I done" or "I seen" etc.”

You wonder why there’s a recruitment and retention crisis in teaching when people are fussing and complaining about such utter bollocks

Many children hear regional dialects at home. At school, they should hear standard grammar from staff all the time. Otherwise, how do they know that standard grammar exists (in real life, not just being taught abstract rules in English lessons at school).