Grammar and teachers

[Usersooty]

I went to a popular theme park last week. Masses of school trips.

I heard so many teachers/TA’s speaking using grammatically incorrect language. It really shocked me and as we waited in (endless) queues I listened to lots of “we haven’t got no snacks”, “we’ll go toilet after this” etc etc.

I have never heard a single member of staff at my childrens schools speak like this. I’d be really concerned if they did.

It made me quite sad for the children being taught/supported academically by them.

I didn’t stare, I didn’t comment. I wasn’t rude at all. Prepared to get flamed, but AIBU to be surprised by this?

The UK has regional dialects and accents

Stop being a snob

But if everyone in a region uses the same 'errors' it becomes part of that dialect and way of speaking.

Dialect isn't just about different words.

There's plenty of research showing that children's ability to write grammatically correct standard English isn't hindered by being spoken to in their own regional dialects. YABU.

I briefly worked as a literacy TA in a school where most children spoke a regionally inflected form of English. I had to correct a few "we was" and "they was" in written work but all children happily understood the explanation that what was fine and comprehensible when speaking informally wasn't correct in formal writing.

@Antoninus I think teaching children correct grammar and being able to use it while they are at work is a basic requirement for teachers.

I have been a parent through 5 schools now and have never heard a member of staff speak in such a lazy manner. Ever. Lots of accents. Lots of staff who were not born in this country. But all professionals who used grammar correctly.

Language evolves.

Go toilet, go library etc wasn’t a thing 15 years ago. Now it is. Loads of young people use it, including educated ones.

It will just evolve into that. We don’t go around saying ‘gadzooks’ or ‘forthwith’ anymore. It’s evolved into something else.

Antoninus, maybe you personally only use it in informal speech and remember not to use it in writing or more formal contexts, but you didn't really make that clear in your earlier post, hence my comment

I do wonder why you are so annoyed and worked up you have to repeatedly post the same thing. It annoyed you - move on. Maybe sign up to teach?

@BusMumsHoliday ok. So two children are 16 and looking for a holiday job assisting in a children’s club that sings French songs (niche job!).

One says “we was learning French last year but I never got to go Paris”. One says “we learned French last year but I wasn’t able to go to Paris.”

Who makes the best impression, all other things being equal?

Why make it harder for young people?

Totally agree with you OP. Teachers and school staff should be role models. I get fed up of people missing t’s out of words and blaming it on regional dialects when it isn’t. I accept that there are a (very) few cases where it is. My own dialect isn’t included in these but I often hear people justifying it by saying that it is. Television announcers and presenters don’t model good always grammar and articulation either.

Catalan is an entirely different language, so that would be more like if your children studied in English but then the teachers used Welsh in the break.

And YABU. I got excellent grades in all exams and am very capable of writing in good quality standard English, but I speak with a regional accent and the relevant grammatical differences. Linguistically, it's actually more interesting to preserve such differences and avoid homogenisation; I believe it contributes to linguistic diversity and cultural heritage.

It's not about being a snob and of course language evolves, but too many people think it is acceptable to use informal, non-standard or just plain incorrect English in more formal contexts or in writing.
Well it shouldn't be.

Are you talking about a glottle stop?

@Saywhatevernow I’m sorry if I’m repeating myself. I don’t assume everyone reads every post.

And this entirely depends on who's hiring and their own biases! I used to deliberately slip into a broader accent with more grammatical variation at my Saturday job, because I was working in a shop with local customers. Using my "school English" got me funny looks at best, and did not facilitate communication in that particular environment.

You have been a parent through 5 different schools and have never heard any member of staff speak like this, yet you go to Legoland for an afternoon and pretty much every member of staff there from the South East you heard speak, had dreadfully grammatically inaccurate speech?!

@drawingmaps Catalan and Spanish are much more similar than English and Welsh

Yabu to call the thread "teachers...". This will have been TAs. Teachers, regardless of accent, do not say 'haven't got no snacks'. Many TAs are very highly educated, but many are not. Teachers are all graduates with either education degrees or post grad education qualifications. Teachers use standard grammar whatever their regional background.

I prefer the use of standard English and some dialects and colloquialisms grate, but I accept I’m in a minority and that the majority believe that it doesn’t matter so long as the written or spoken word can be understood.

@Redlocks30 no. Just a few. But enough for me to notice.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on 'correct' here. Dialect use is not incorrect, it's non-standard.

You'wrong, Cheesepleaselouisa that it's only support staff. I can assure you, as a former supply primary teacher that I have heard (and inwardly judged) many teachers, for their incorrect or poor spoken English and very occasionally too, written English. Even some Head Teachers I know in my region are more likely to say 'me' when it should be 'my'!

Alright, English and Scots then if you want a closer comparison. They're more different than the odd accent or dialectical difference, because Catalan is a language in its own right, not a dialect of Castillian Spanish

@Soapboxqueen
Glottal stop

How snobby can you be? I'm a TA. Most of my teachers use "we was", a lot of them also check with me if they struggle to spell something. If we're on a school trip , odds are that I'll be the one speaking properly. Not because I'm smarter or more educated, but because I learned English in a different country and I wasn't exposed to the same regionalisms as them. I still make mistakes sometimes, and my accent does make me sound funny as it becomes more obvious if I'm tired,stressed,flustered etc.

Btw, they're amazing teachers ,worked to the bone, that really enjoy teaching and love the kids. The alternative however, would be no teachers/other staff. We're already massively struggling to recruit /replace staff that left.

Dialects are not incorrect, it would be extremely sad if we lost dialects, code switching is also an important skill, it seems OP would like to supress code switching.