To think it's not really possible to get wealthy?

[ilyana]

I live in London and earlier today, I treated myself to a fancy haircut in Belgravia and met a friend for a coffee and a walk around. I saw a whole side of London I don't normally see! I live in a nice enough but definitely not posh part of south London, get the bus everywhere, and shop at Lidl.

We saw a woman coming out of one of the gorgeous townhouses and getting into a chauffeur driven car, and I commented that I'd love to have that lifestyle. My friend told me I could if I really wanted it and worked for it, and that I'm limiting myself. I'm 38 and single and earn £65K at my day job and another £5K or so through a bit of freelance work on the side. I could probably push that up to £10K if I gave up a lot of my free time. I know £70-75K is decent money, but it's hardly a stepping stone to this kind of wealth, is it? If I really pushed myself at work and looked to move to another role elsewhere, I could maybe get to £85K in a year or two, possibly £100K by 42ish, but that's still not huge money in London, is it? Particularly without a partner to share costs.

AIBU to think it's pretty much impossible for me to attain that lifestyle at this point, and that almost everyone who does live like this has inherited wealth, privileges like having gone to top private schools, or married into money? Or maybe done something like bought/inherited property young and got lucky with property prices rising?

What you can achieve go for.
The handbag, the holidays, cleaner etc.
Some want more and more and more.
You previous life was tough, now has improved but yet you refer to a 'frugal hermit'.
How do you know when you got all the material goods you desire you will be satisfied.

There will always be someone richer than you and the need for desiring more wont go away.

Because the "there's more to life than money" comments are infantilising and patronising.

I'm 38 years old, I'm well aware there's more to life than money. I don't need to be told, over and over again.

Money so far has made my life a hell of a lot better and easier. The more money I have, the happier I am, because it buys security, comfort and nice things. I can hop on a plane last minute to see my mum if I feel like it without having to eat beans on toast for the next six months. I can attend friends' weddings abroad. I can see one of my best friends in NYC, go to Broadway shows, go out for dinner.

I'm not sure why people keep bringing up extreme Dubai-level wealth, either. I don't want a fleet of super cars and a private jet. I want to live in a nice, smart, safe part of London, regularly have a driver to get me where I need to go (not even owning the car myself, possibly!), fly Business internationally once or twice a year, maybe have a really nice designer handbag or two.

This is a lifestyle that would have been a given for a well-educated, experienced single person with no kids on a low six figure salary 20 years ago! I know it isn't the case now, but it's hardly 'extreme wealth' is it? I'm sure most people here wouldn't think twice about spending at least £3000-5000 on each of their kids' food, hobbies, clothes and birthday/xmas presents over the course of a year? It's funny how people just expect single, childless women to slum it. We don't get to experience the joy of kids and we don't deserve to be able to compensate by having a nice lifestyle either....lovely.

No, I asked why people seem to expect single, childless women to live like frugal hermits.

The shaming of women for wanting a nice lifestyle is so weird. How are most of the things I mentioned 'material goods'? With the exception of a nice handbag, they're not at all, are they? They're experiences and lifestyle improvements. Living in a nice, safe area isn't a material good. Getting off an eight-hour flight without painful joints from being crammed into a tiny seat isn't a material good. Getting driven around to your hospital appointments instead of being crammed onto crowded trains where you don't get a seat isn't a material good.

There's so much projection here.

It's you who referenced extreme belgravia chauffeur levels of wealth. You set the tone from the start. It's not infantalising or patronising either to point out that there are greater riches than wealth. Its the most important thing to really grasp. Yes, we all need a certain standard to be comfortable and able to eat/stay warm/house ourselves etc and you have this and more already. Beyond that, riches come from friendships and connections. You are just so strangely prickly about it all.

Who on earth has said that childfree women cant enjoy luxury and have to slum it?

@ilyana

It's patriarchy for you. The way most of us have been brought up. Are you a woman? Sit quiet then wait until you are needed by a man.

It is all changing slowly but a lot of people are stuck in these patterns and they will shame you for wanting to be rich. Nothing wrong with wanting that, live your life to the fullest! You only live it once.

A lot of women will be triggered by you saying openly you want to be rich, they will try to put you back in the box. It's on them, you are in a different place.

All the best for you Op, you will get there! 💐

It is you who set the tone of the wealth you admired.

It comes at a price.
There are plenty who are childless or diabled but have no desires to aquire the wealth you aspire to.
You will NEVER be satisfied.
When you get to your safe area there may be a want for a gated community, security bla bla
It will be enough.
But you are a single childless,diabled woman so.must have some monetary compensation it seems.

*never be enough

How incredibly vile.

Wanting to have a better lifestyle means I'll never be satisfied? Never have enough? Based on what, exactly?

At the moment, I still don't have enough to live even a comfortable life, let alone a fancy one. I have to choose between daily comforts and being able to travel to see family and friends. Which is OK - I'm aware many people have it worse, but it could be a hell of a lot better, couldn't it?

What's all this vast amount of help you think is available to a single disabled woman, exactly? And why do you think I should settle for less than I want?

I started the convo because I saw a woman and thought her life looked great. Literally nothing more than that. My friend and I disagreed on whether or not if it would be possible to ever get there.

Yes, it is absolutely patronising to do the whole "money isn't everything" spiel to an almost middle aged adult. It's the kind of thing you might say to a 20-year-old. I've already explained that most of my friends and family are abroad so yes, in my circumstances, money makes a massive difference. The more money I have, the more I can see them. The more money I have, the more comfortable the trips will be. I want money for specific things I know will make my life vastly better.

I turned down a recent invitation to NYC (which I really regret) because I was having joint pain and was worried the flight in economy would be too much, and I was worried about all the walking and subway taking I'd have to do to fit in our plans. If I were richer, that would have been much less of an issue. I could have had a lie-flat bed to rest on the way there, got picked up from the airport, had a driver drive me around, and stayed in a nice, comfortable hotel rather than slumming it in a basic no-frills room like I usually do. And I wouldn't have missed out on a lovely exciting week with friends.

I'm prickly because I'm sick to death of explaining the same thing over and over. I'm sick of people assuming I'm some vapid idiot just wanting to flex, when I have very real and valid reasons for wanting to be wealthier! I don't want money for the sake of it or to show off - I know exactly what I'd be doing with it and how my life would improve!

On 75k a year as single person.
Expect to be on 100k in 2 years.

You cant afford a cab to the hospital?
You cant afford a business seat?
Lots have a decent quailty of life on far less than that and that is for whole familes.
Aspring to be like chauffeur driven women in Belgravia is sad.

I don't expect to be on £100K. I said it's probably the most I can realistically aim for if I really try hard, get promoted, have luck on my side, and work really long hours. As in, I can't get MORE than that. That's not the same as "expecting to be on 100K", is it?

I'm on £65K a year PAYE and generally another £5K freelance. I said I could probably do £10K freelance really pushing myself, so absolute max of £75K. That's the absolute maximum realistic annual salary I can aim for in the short to medium term unless I somehow find a hack, like investing well or somehow starting a very successful business.

No, I can't afford a business seat. Business class tickets to NYC with British Airways is currently a minimum of £4000 return. I can't even afford to do that even once a year at the moment. Not sure what maths you're using to think this is doable for someone on my salary who is paying a London mortgage alone.

I don't use Uber anymore because of bad experiences, but a return trip to a hospital appointment in central London is a minimum of about £60, at a quiet time. No, I can't afford the best part of £400 a month in Uber costs if I'm also travelling a few times a year, even in economy.

Do you just... not realise how much things cost?

Yes, that's absolutely the vibe I'm getting from a lot of posters tbh.

How dare a woman, especially a single and disabled one, aim for a nice life! The audacity!

I especially love the "relationships are what's important" stuff coming from people who no doubt have big support networks and loads of friends and family nearby. No, you can't buy that stuff, but you know what's worse than being rich and lonely? Being poor and lonely.

Most of the money in Belgravia is from Russian oligarchs and the Middle East. Generally from ill gotten gains, corruption or dictatorship family control of oil wealth.
I wouldn't aspire to it personally, wealth is not necessarily a financial measurement. It could be happiness, health and well-being instead all.of which money doesn't buy or guarantee.

I'm recently single and childfree and older than you. I was very wealthy. Not so much now but am still very comfortable and work part time only to top up a bit. There are no resentment vibes from me and no wanting to put you back in a box. I just think you've had a lot of supportive posts, kind posts, well meaning responses, nothing rude or derogatory and yet, you're in full combatative mode. I don't get it.

I have been involved with many properties in those areas. The only 'normal' people who live in Belgravia are Hedge Fund Managers. Other people are members of European Royal Families, building owned by Sovereign Funds or Pension Funds. My work in Mayfair and Belgravia made me conclude that money does not make people happy. However, being poor is utterly miserable.

Agreed.

Hi OP. I've NC for this. Re-houses in Belgravia, as I'm sure you know, you could be looking at £30m plus for them. You are right to say that many of them are inherited through generations, bought by oligarchs, Saudis etc - or they are embassies! Also, many of them are apartments - not many people need that type of house across 8 floors or whatever.

The reason people have drivers in that area is often security. We only know a couple of families where this is the case - the driver is for the whole family and is never more than 15 mins away from where the kids are.

To be perfectly blunt, a lot of women in that area have either inherited wealth or they have married into it. Put it this way, I know quite a lot of people worth anything from 20m to 200m. All are self-made ( no inherited wealth), all non-salaried, all entrepreneurs (who have sold companies) and, I'm afraid, all men. (That's not to say women can't do it though)! None of these have the 15-30m houses in Belgravia or Knightsbridge. I know some men (and their families) who use private jets, but they don't have drivers because there is no need when there is Uber. Also, they don't live in 30m houses. They tend to have several, less costly houses and other investments. They don't put it all into property - they use wealth / payouts to generate passive income.

The only time we had a full-time driver was when we were abroad (where this came with DH's ex-pat package) and I actually felt very uncomfortable with the set up because some days I didn't want to use him at all, but felt as if I had to go out because he was just down there hanging about. Very weird and a waste.

If you are a single person, you really wouldn't need a whole house like that. They are huge for most families and they tend to use certain floors for staff. But there are loads of apartments that would be in your reach. You don't need to live in Belgravia - Chelsea and Kensington have more going on in terms of shops, cafes, etc. Even Pimlico has similar housing, but cheaper and lots of flats.

Personally, I think Knightsbridge has gone downhill recently. I'm not sure why. The air pollution is also terrible round there on the main roads. It's better by the river where you feel you can breathe! Have a look at flats in the Kings Rd area, or even Parson's Green. Not quite as grand, but still the lifestyle you want, even if you have to trade space for location.

As a solicitor I worked at times for UHNWI, not generally happy people - soon got habituated to their lifestyle and wanted more. Also expectations higher so v angry when things went wrong. For myself I set myself a goal of retiring debt free in my 50's and by staying single, buying my home at right time (lucky of course) and prioritizing maxing out ISA/pension contributions each year rather than holidays/other discretionary spending able now to live off six figure investment income. Best thing that happened to me was being fleeced by a financial adviser at outset of my career as it taught me that investing was something I had to learn about myself even though I keep it simple and follow Warren Buffetts advice about investing to edge of your competence (and knowing the limits of your competence). For some people that could just be investing in a range of trackers which is largely what I did.

Op,
You come across as incredibly bitter, aggressive and unhappy.
I don't think any amount of money would satisfy you and you are patronising and nasty to people who have posted suggestions.
You have a decent income. Maybe try and concentrate on making some friends locally? That would help ease the loneliness and perhaps depression, much more than money.

I love sitting in Eccleston square on edge of Belgravia. It’s another world. I earn 61k but feels like a pittance. I’ll be rich if I move back north!

Absolutely don't understand why people want to shame and enforce a scarcity mindset. Not enough people - particular women have financial literacy, use their creative faculties (like imagination) and are brave about their intentions to grow. During lockdown I was working x2 post docs and running a start up and because of all the financial precarity with jobs I got myself as upto speed as possible on diversity income (thank you Patricia Bright and Freetrade!).

Wish I had access to this information as a young person but money was never a topic to talk about in my home. Similar questioning from OP makes for ++++ changes.

Maybe it's not the bag or the first class ticket in the end that brings the happiness but we are all on a journey and what we find personally important / meaningful is really on what matters.

Indeed.

It's so truly sad how many women on this thread think you should have to make a choice between having meaningful friendships and wanting to have a better lifestyle. Such a scarcity mindset, and so very patronising. It's funny they think they're doing something with their petty insults and jibes about loneliness, because it says nothing about me and absolutely everything about them.

I can't stand how people act like it's virtuous to be poor. There's plenty of money in the world, and most of it is held by oligarchs, billionaires, unethical people, many of whom haven't worked as hard as I have. There's nothing wrong with wanting a tiny slice of the pie, and I refuse to let anyone shame me for it.

There has been some really useful advice on this thread, which I've taken in, and I've already started to make some changes and change my mindset. I might never be Belgravia wealthy, but I've realised that I can definitely improve my situation more than I thought. Having even a minimal level of financial security has brought me so much contentment I couldn't have previously imagined.

I'd be really up for having some kind of thread to share tips and financial advice...I don't believe there's currently a thread or a sub forum for that on MN?

Absolutely up for a thread on personal growth / financial literacy etc. I'll come back to your message in a mo and will add some resources that might be helpful. Glad to learn from others and once again - thank you for raising the question / theme. 😎

I've not read the full thread but I'm with you OP on wanting to be wealthy. It just gives you options. For example going private for healthcare instead of having to wait three years on the NHS; helping out a friend or family member who is struggling without a second thought. Most things can be solved with money. I remember once asking a kitchen designer if what I was asking for was possible. He said: "ANYTHING is possible...you just need to have money". That blew my mind

My aim is to become financially independent as soon as possible.

Bookmarking for the follow-on thread. Maybe we should create a group of like-minded individuals somewhere. Mumsnetters tend not to like this this sort of talk in general because it's all about "you should be grateful for what you've got. Some people don't even have JOBS you know!" and "you're such an awful person for not being ecstatic about paying 40% tax". Weirdly I was having a similar conversation with my son today about how you will always end up around the same level as the people you associate with.