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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's not really possible to get wealthy?

271 replies

ilyana · 19/07/2023 23:04

I live in London and earlier today, I treated myself to a fancy haircut in Belgravia and met a friend for a coffee and a walk around. I saw a whole side of London I don't normally see! I live in a nice enough but definitely not posh part of south London, get the bus everywhere, and shop at Lidl.

We saw a woman coming out of one of the gorgeous townhouses and getting into a chauffeur driven car, and I commented that I'd love to have that lifestyle. My friend told me I could if I really wanted it and worked for it, and that I'm limiting myself. I'm 38 and single and earn £65K at my day job and another £5K or so through a bit of freelance work on the side. I could probably push that up to £10K if I gave up a lot of my free time. I know £70-75K is decent money, but it's hardly a stepping stone to this kind of wealth, is it? If I really pushed myself at work and looked to move to another role elsewhere, I could maybe get to £85K in a year or two, possibly £100K by 42ish, but that's still not huge money in London, is it? Particularly without a partner to share costs.

AIBU to think it's pretty much impossible for me to attain that lifestyle at this point, and that almost everyone who does live like this has inherited wealth, privileges like having gone to top private schools, or married into money? Or maybe done something like bought/inherited property young and got lucky with property prices rising?

OP posts:
ilyana · 20/07/2023 15:36

QuickDraining · 20/07/2023 13:08

Funny how your priorities change in life. For me wealth is probably being debt free and being able to afford the occasional holiday but ultimately having some free time. And possibly making life more comfortable for you as you age. I've had three old family members house bound due to age and ill health. Two too disabled to have a shower. All three couldn't get into their gardens due to their problems. All three could have afforded to make some basic alterations to their homes to make things easier. But for one reason or another never did. I know this is wildly off, but what I am learning in life is that time is very precious and you don't get much of it. I'm more jealous of the couples that grab a kiss and a smile and hold hands than someone with good clothes and a handbag. The height of decadence for me is buying a pint, which is very rare as I can't afford to eat and drink out. I'd take that money and move out of London. Heck, I'd learn to drive, don a flat cap and drive you around a few times a week for a hundred odd quid. There are probably places with competitive taxi prices still about, that work out cheaper than running a car.

Yes, I would much rather have a genuine, loving relationship, but I can't magic that up, can I? I've had some absolutely shocking experiences with men and apps and dating over the past few years, and I just can't do it anymore. I'll live my life, and if I meet someone, great, but I'm not actively looking now.

I think this is part of the reason for me feeling the way I do - I've realised that I can't control whether I meet someone or how they behave, but I can control a lot of other things. I can create a nice little comfortable life for myself. I can try to make more money, grow my side gig, travel to new exciting places, have fun with fashion and looking good, etc. I can do up my little flat and show it off on my interiors/design blog. I can take fun weekend trips to NYC on a whim or book a last minute trip to Barbados if I feel like it. I can get a train to Paris to see a gig and spend the next day mooching around markets and drinking wine. I can get all dressed up and go to the National Theatre alone or with a friend. Like, what am I meant to do otherwise? Just sit here in my flat swiping on Tinder and feeling miserable?

I feel like people who think this is shallow are not really understanding what a privilege it is to find a compatible life partner, particularly from a financial perspective.

OP posts:
Pandor · 20/07/2023 15:37

@littlehattie - if you don’t mind me asking, would you say you were increasing your earning potential for your benefit, or is it more that you want to set up the next generation (if you have/ will have kids?).

I think the reason I ask is because I decided that personally I didn’t want to devote that much time to work in private practice, so went in- house.

Inevitably I sometimes ponder if it was the right decision. I have a friend who is an equity partner and earning far more than me, but definitely more stressed and no happier. But… their house is worth more, I’m sure they have far more assets tucked away, their kids go private….

Sometimes I wish I earned more, other times I feel like all it would really achieve is buying more stuff I don’t need, and perhaps it would lock me even more tightly into having to earn a high salary to maintain a more expensive lifestyle.

It’s such an interesting balance, and such a personal decision. How much of yourself do you give, and how much money is enough?

littlehattie · 20/07/2023 15:43

@Pandor for my own benefit, my DH's and my future children.

We'd like to be able to send DC's private if we choose and to also continue to holiday as much as we do too. We will also be upgrading our house and that with be in the SE which is obviously expensive. I like nice things and that motivates me.

I give a lot of myself but not as much as if I were at a US firm. The important thing for me is balance between good pay and not having severe anxiety at work. I have anxiety but can manage it at my current stress levels so that's fine. It's not for everyone but lifestyle is important to me and ultimately I'm the one choosing to do the job

Pandor · 20/07/2023 16:02

@littlehattie - thanks for replying, and I hope it goes well for you.

In spite of my occasional wobbles I feel on balance the decision was right for us. I think there is a point where you hit a pretty comfortable income, and then it can feel like diminishing returns (unless you earn a hell of a lot more, enough to reach the “tipping point” I mentioned earlier).

LaDeeDa123 · 20/07/2023 16:13

@ilyana i actually meant it in quite a positive way. Very sad and possibly telling that you describe that as weird. I suspect you won’t be happy however much money you have in the bank so I wish you well. I think you will need all the luck you can get.

VIPNanny · 20/07/2023 16:58

I work for the billionaires, and honestly I wouldn’t want their life if you gave it to me.

Having a driver, a cleaner and a chef might seem appealing (it definitely does to me still when I picture what nice little adds up I could add to my own life) but the reality is so different to what people picture. Most of the billionaires I have worked for (and that’s a fair few now) really don’t have the happy life people think money provides. Most are in not so happy marriage, most are also surprisingly extremely socially isolated (they have work relations etc… but true friends? Friends that would still be there if they lost everything? No), so surprisingly most don’t even make the most of their money, because the things that truly matter (which is a healthy marriage or healthy friendships or health in general) they don’t really have and can’t buy, I always pictured that people with money must always be having the time of their life. But the reality is so different!

Most have a less vibrant social lives than 99% of the people I know (most of which don’t even have 1% of their wealth).

Staff, which sounds good on paper, then become this weird in-betweener, It’s those people who work for you but have a friendly relationship with but aren’t you friends but know everything about you, it’s the people that add positively to your lifestyle through their work, but also take a lot from you (their problem become your problem kind of, and you live or co-live with a lot of them so the mood of the house can definitely be impacted by any internal conflict amongst them or with you and you also lose most of your privacy).

Most billionaires I know hate having staff as much as they love it because imagine having someone living there with you 24/7 and you being responsible for their needs (as staff all your needs are usually covered by the family) and mood and not being able to ever truly be alone in your own home.

(I mean it’s their choice to have such coverage and a fair amount of billionaires actually do chose to have no staff because of it but yes, there are objectively pros and cons to having staff working for you full time in the intimacy of your home).

Honestly, as someone who live the life of the billionaires at work (I do take the private jets, or fly first, go in cars with drivers, eat the food made by the chefs and enjoy the same hotels and restaurants as them, etc…) I am glad I get to experience it through my work (and maybe that’s the best deal, as in enjoying the perks but it not being your life full-time) but I am so so glad when I clock out. The private jet or chauffeured car experience just isn’t worth what comes with that level of wealth.

And I don’t know any staff who work under billionaires who leave their shift wishing it was their life full-time, if anything we all feel a lot more grateful for our own actual lives, where we don’t have to worry about whether or not our friends are friends with us because of who we are or what we can provide financially, where people don’t date us because of money and where we can walk away from the relationship freely because it doesn’t mean walking away from an entire lifestyle the average person can never attain again, and where we don’t actually have staff living with us full-time we have to catter to.

If I was richer I would definitely have a cook and a cleaner (I like to drive so a driver wouldn’t appeal to me) but I would have them working minimum hours and would even be happy with the cook batch cooking for the week and me reheating it all up. I would still not pay for first class tickets nor business class seats (not gonna lie first class on emirates should be done once in life if possible and having a seat you can stretch and sleep on is pretty sweet, but the difference in price just isn’t worth it, private jets are even worse, so expensive, for a slightly higher chance to die than on a commercial plane statistically speaking and a lot more sensation (I really don’t like private jets because they are smaller plans and so you just feel a lot more and would much rather be in economy on a bigger plane if given the choice than fly private personally).

But to afford this lifestyle you need millions (well billions actually more so) because just in staff I would say salaries probably add up to 1 million a year (if you have a nanny + cook + cleaner + Gardener + driver) then you have to feed your entire staff, some provide them with housing (especially if you travel and they are all coming along). It’s a lot. And no I don’t think the average person can get to that level of wealth by just reaching the top of their career.

Most would need to reach the top of their career and re-inject their money into investments (usually the ones that payout best are those with the most risks to lose it all) or their own business, and then re-invest what they earn through those into bigger/better investments etc…

So can average people become wealthy? Yes but it does usually require either earning well enough to be able to invest or being ballsy enough to start your own business with very little and have enough luck or knowledge and experience to turn it into a super successful venture or winning the lottery and investing wisely your gains.

Yes, you can also marry for wealth but please don’t. Because no money is worth your financial and emotional freedom, ever, and most women I have met through my job who weren’t born rich but married into it (including for love) miss the freedom they had pre-money.

To me, as someone who witnesses and partially live through that kind of life, I would say there are more cons than pros (but then I am also very non-superficial and so don’t find much joys in expensive things, be it clothing, cars or electronics and so being able to dress in Louis Vuitton head to toe without needing to check my bank balance wouldn’t bring me any joy and wouldn’t ever be worth losing out on the freedom you have when you are a “nobody”, don’t have enough money to have people take an interest in your because of it.

Beneficialchampion2 · 20/07/2023 18:58

LimePi · 20/07/2023 13:15

Sorry this is not the level of wealth OP is talking about:)

a lot of people can achieve what you have, I agree, but not everyone can (some don’t have abilities, health or luck with timing (eg with crypto); some have family circumstances that are too difficult for them to overcome)

but sure, I agree your level is achievable. Still not Belgravia level with chauffeur

Third paragraph

'I am not of the wealth that the OP has alluded to but I am financially comfortable'

For me the example given in the OP is not unattainable for me. It's just a matter of time and some smart investments.

Zippeedidodah · 20/07/2023 19:11

Yet you have more money than most people who work the min wage jobs. You can live comfortably and I'm sure people look at you how you looked at that woman you saw today.
You don't realise how lucky you are, you want to be like someone else.

sundaymorningbliss · 20/07/2023 19:14

Secretboringsister · 20/07/2023 09:27

Hi! You didn’t mention children. That does change things for sure. You did mention that you could boost your traditional income, so in a year of boosting your income and reducing your expenses just a bit, I still believe a person on your salary could find approximately £878 ($1,000) in one year to get your investment plan started. I believe you can start with just one small start and build on it to make a foundation to what you strive for. ❤️

@Secretboringsister

If someone wanted to start learning about stock/ shares / investments from the scratch, where would you recommended to start?

It makes so much sense what you are saying. Brilliant advice.

ilyana · 20/07/2023 19:22

LaDeeDa123 · 20/07/2023 16:13

@ilyana i actually meant it in quite a positive way. Very sad and possibly telling that you describe that as weird. I suspect you won’t be happy however much money you have in the bank so I wish you well. I think you will need all the luck you can get.

But it isn't positive, is it? It's actually quite condescending, as well as plain inaccurate.

The fact you jumped to insult me so quickly for rightfully saying your comment makes no sense says quite a lot about your character.

OP posts:
ilyana · 20/07/2023 19:26

Zippeedidodah · 20/07/2023 19:11

Yet you have more money than most people who work the min wage jobs. You can live comfortably and I'm sure people look at you how you looked at that woman you saw today.
You don't realise how lucky you are, you want to be like someone else.

Except I've literally said I'm very grateful for what I have.

Funny you should use the word 'lucky'. I have a disability, chronic illness, grew up poor, will/can never have kids, and am unlikely to find a partner based on some of the previously mentioned things. Yes, some have it worse, but many have it a hell of a lot better.

I've made the best out of what was actually quite a bad situation, and I'm asking how I can make it even better. If I hadn't strived for more, I'd still be living off PIP and a minimum wage job and renting a room with strangers.

OP posts:
Theonlythingthatmakessense · 20/07/2023 19:31

I’ve worked for those type of wealthy families. Couldn’t pay me to live like that. It’s not something to aspire to. Enjoy what you’ve got. I know, that’s not what you asked but had to put it out there!

LaDeeDa123 · 20/07/2023 19:33

Oh dear god @ilyana it was a comment which was definitely meant to be positive. You took it the wrong way and are now insulting me. You don’t know anything about my character so pipe down.

Thehippowife · 20/07/2023 19:34

Glass ceiling mate. You can see the wealthy lifestyle above you, but are held back by insane tax rates and government police’s that are designed to keep you poor while the rich get richer. You can see the wealth above you, but frankly have no chance of getting there.

pollykitty · 20/07/2023 19:36

Of course, it's possible. But it's much more unlikely to happen if you work for a company in a salaried job as you do. Only certain professions (e.g., some doctors/consultants, lawyers, brokers, etc, or in certain industries if you get up to CEO [like pharma]) will enable someone to obtain significant wealth and even then, you have to be the best. The only way to become super rich in a capitalist society as a 'normal' person is to own and run a successful business. Most people aren't willing to risk engaging in a self-owned business, so stay in salaried jobs (which is fine). There are examples everywhere, in every industry. I would argue strongly though, that most people who become significantly wealthy don't move to posh areas of London to 'live a lifestyle'.

Secretboringsister · 20/07/2023 19:51

sundaymorningbliss · 20/07/2023 19:14

@Secretboringsister

If someone wanted to start learning about stock/ shares / investments from the scratch, where would you recommended to start?

It makes so much sense what you are saying. Brilliant advice.

Hi!

thanks for tagging me. The first thing that needs to be understood is the difference between a static and dynamic asset and why the difference is so important.

static asset: a piece of real estate (house, flat, land, etc. That you reside in or on). If it’s paid off you own it and it can appreciate (increase) in value . However you must spend money servicing that asset, maintenance, council tax etc, and unless you’re renting it out you aren’t making money on that asset until you sell it and realise a profit (which then is a capital gain at a huge tax burden AND you don’t have the asset anymore, or you rent it out which also has costs associated to it but it then becomes what you really want: a dynamic asset which gives you passive income (also known as cash flow). the passive income needs to be enough to service the asset (maintenance, tax burden, etc.) for it to be viable as income.

stocks, bonds and REIT’s are assets you buy, that pay you quarterly dividends for doing absolutely nothing but owning them. You can take the dividend and pocket it which wil incur tax but you won’t be upside down on it, or do what I do which is take 50% of it as deferred income (less tax) and reinvest the other 50% of the dividend back into the company to buy more stock. (Thereby no tax burden) plus you not only keep the original asset but you are buying more assets that generate more passive income.

passive income is everything.

some things to note: chose stocks in companies that have a annual or quarterly dividend only. You CAN ABSOLUTELY buy 1 share at a time through a trusted trading site yourself you don’t need a broker. DM me and I can give you a few trading platforms that are globally known that you can research for yourself I just don’t want to plug any companies.

you can also do a combo like I did which was buy stock 1 or 2 shares at a time but I started a little after age 30 so I wanted to accelerate so I would also buy into a fund (index) for £200 when I had £200 which wasn’t often back then. Basically you are pooling your money with the other people in the fund and the management company gathers all the money together, you have a fractional ownership of stocks and bonds with others and get a portion of the dividend. Again there are only about 10 reputable funds for beginners that “I personally “ would use, you need to research because it’s your money and future.
❤️

Secretboringsister · 20/07/2023 20:00

Also May I just say I appreciate the different views here, there is a lot of emotion around finance and money, how you feel about it and it’s importance to you.

being financially free is important to me on my terms, not the billionaires stories here, that’s not for me but it is for some. Also at the risk of getting hate I also don’t think that honest hardworking people who have been frugal, saved, invested and worked extra hours to get to a place of comfort should have their “wealth” taken from them and redistributed to people who can do the same and just spend everything and accumulate debt for debts sake.

all of the I’ll gotten and criminal seizure funds from proceeds of crime should be returned to the citizens but that is JUst my opinion

also I think we need to be better in the educational system with teaching young people about budgeting, credit etc.

also to get out of the instant gratification culture and impulse buy mentality (which I used to have years ago around … Makeup! So embarrassing!)

Secretboringsister · 20/07/2023 20:05

pollykitty · 20/07/2023 19:36

Of course, it's possible. But it's much more unlikely to happen if you work for a company in a salaried job as you do. Only certain professions (e.g., some doctors/consultants, lawyers, brokers, etc, or in certain industries if you get up to CEO [like pharma]) will enable someone to obtain significant wealth and even then, you have to be the best. The only way to become super rich in a capitalist society as a 'normal' person is to own and run a successful business. Most people aren't willing to risk engaging in a self-owned business, so stay in salaried jobs (which is fine). There are examples everywhere, in every industry. I would argue strongly though, that most people who become significantly wealthy don't move to posh areas of London to 'live a lifestyle'.

great post. The self made wealthy people I know (multimillionaires I don’t believe I know any billionaires) wouldn’t want to live in a flashy posh way. They don’t wear logos and they don’t drive Ferraris etc. The usual give away is well worn quality clothing (not new not flash) and an expensive but NOT blinged out watch.

nevynevster · 20/07/2023 20:08

Mumtothreegirlies · 20/07/2023 08:11

Nope that sort of money isn’t dependent on a degree or ‘working your way up’ in an industry that sort of money is from having your own business and investments.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/30/average-income-deloitte-swiss-uk-partners

£1m average income doesn't seem too shabby to me !

Average income of Deloitte’s partners in UK and Switzerland tops £1m

Each will receive distributable profit of £1,058,000 in year to end of May – 33 times UK’s average annual pay

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/30/average-income-deloitte-swiss-uk-partners

StinkyWizzleteets · 20/07/2023 20:11

The love of having things is nothing compared to experiencing contentment with what you do have in life.

This world is full of things. Things we don’t need, things we no longer need, things to put things in to hide things so it looks like we live in a place with no things.

Materialism isn’t a goal to aspire to, especially when you already admit you live a privileged lifestyle.

You clearly feel something is missing but it certainly isn’t money or material possessions

ercolrocker · 20/07/2023 21:18

There is hard work + right time/right place

There is inheritance.

There is marriage

Only one of those can you control but it depends on what you're prepared to sacrifice

LimePi · 20/07/2023 21:28

nevynevster · 20/07/2023 20:08

The key word here is ‘partners’. Meaning they are part owners of the business. And its not easy to make a partner, you should be not just professionally good, but ‘bringing new clients’ good

nevynevster · 20/07/2023 21:36

LimePi · 20/07/2023 21:28

The key word here is ‘partners’. Meaning they are part owners of the business. And its not easy to make a partner, you should be not just professionally good, but ‘bringing new clients’ good

Sure but you get to be partner through progression which starts out as a salaried employee. It's bringing in client work but not exactly the same as building a business from scratch. Quite a few are order takers

Barbadossunset · 20/07/2023 21:43

@Abhannmor
Think of it as a game of Monopoly. It's getting close to the end.....

Whats going to happen when the end comes?

omgsally · 20/07/2023 21:48

godlikeAI · 20/07/2023 09:51

It’s impossible to get actually wealthy through salaried work - you can’t sell your hours for a high enough rate. You have to get money through a business, building a product etc. and then investing that money to make more for you. That’s capitalism - making money from money

Well, in some roles you can. If you're in the top exec team in the right company, earning a million a year with bonuses on top, you can get reasonably well off.