Page 29 | AIBU to hate the term mental load?

YeahIsaidit · 2023-07-19T16:10:52+00:00

I cringe every time I read it, people lamenting that they can't cope with the mental load, partners aren't taking on an equal share of the mental load, argh! They're chores, household tasks, jobs. Mental load makes it sound like you're suffering from some kind of mental health issue rather than being dragged down by housework, stop it.

aSofaNearYou · 23/07/2023 09:08

IdSell · 23/07/2023 09:06

So many of these examples are 'self inflicted'. It never crossed my mind to do birthday cards or presents for my husbands family. It wantn't a matter of me making a stance about it, it literally didn't occur to me to do it. My husband didn't seem to worry so why would I worry for him.

I don't bother with a lot of things SOME other women (and I think it mostly is women) bother with. Such as trying to make picture perfect christmases. I'd get the kids their pressies but wouldn't fuss about food or decorations . Maybe im just massively lazy 😅

I get that women probably 'worry' more. I think I worry more than my husband but I can hardly blame him or the rest of the males on the planet for that.

Work and chores should be split evenly obviously but an awful lot of the examples of mental load are things that people could choose not to do or things that only exist because of the temperament of the women (ie worrying or fussing / call it what you will)

Mumsnet likes to put the blame on men and I'm normally fully on board for that but Im not convinced about the mental loss thing being men's fault and not something that's largely self inflicted.

EXEPTIONS. Obviously some women's situations are extremely difficult for financial or health or whatever reasons.

I understand why some women would feel overwhelmed. I would too.

I know what you mean, but a lot of the time when people talk about mental load, they are talking about chores that do just need to happen.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 23/07/2023 09:15

If it were just the chores that needed to happen wouldn’t it be the physical load?

the reason it’s called the mental load is because as many women have described on here, it’s not the doing, it’s the fact that women have to keep a running mental list in Their head of shit that needs to be done in order to manage a house with DC in a way that most men simply don’t because it wouldn’t occur to them to do so.

aSofaNearYou · 23/07/2023 09:24

Theeyeballsinthesky · 23/07/2023 09:15

If it were just the chores that needed to happen wouldn’t it be the physical load?

the reason it’s called the mental load is because as many women have described on here, it’s not the doing, it’s the fact that women have to keep a running mental list in Their head of shit that needs to be done in order to manage a house with DC in a way that most men simply don’t because it wouldn’t occur to them to do so.

Yes, should have been clearer if you meant me, I mean mental chores as well. The point is that it's not just thinking about things like making a fuss of birthdays, it's thinking about things that are entirely necessary, and yet the DH still doesn't think about them.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 23/07/2023 09:27

Yes sorry meant to quote - haven’t had my tea yet!

and exactly. It’s the running list of everyday things day in day out for years on end that’s so wearying

picturethispatsy · 23/07/2023 09:54

What I want to know is WHY does the term mental load “piss you off” so much OP?

How does someone (women) saying it affect your life in any way? What prompted you to start this thread?

AnyOldThings · 23/07/2023 09:56

Why don't you delegate some of it to him?

I know you shouldn't have to, but it's the first step.

@DrSbaitso he works away like I said. Plus he simply doesn’t worry like I do. He’s not going to worry about things that I do as it’s not his nature to fret over what ifs. Therefore my brain and his work differently. When he’s home he helps lots. But the rest is simply on me and that’s ok but equally it’s also ok for me to label that pressure with the term mental load as that’s what it feels like.

I often joke that adulting is not what I signed up for and I think that’s what mental load is about in many ways. Not everyone will feel the same as our brains are all different. But OP was making out that using the term was moaning about basic life. It’s not. It’s recognising that sometimes people feel overwhelmed by the small minutia of daily life. Recognising the feeling is not being weak. It’s acknowledging that modern life can sometimes feel like the longest to do list & logistics planner in the world. Its being human.

Greenberg2 · 23/07/2023 18:40

Thepeopleversuswork · 21/07/2023 12:36

@fitzwilliamdarcy

I think the big elephant in the room is that tackling male inertia at home may involve accepting that there are fewer men who desperately want kids than there are women who desperately want kids.

I think you're absolutely right. Far fewer men than women really care about having kids. Many men go on to be very grateful that they've had kids but find me a 20 something/30 something man who is really prioritising having children and I'll find you a unicorn. And the number of men who want kids enough and are prepared to really disrupt their lives in order to support their wives is vanishingly small.

And this leads a lot of women to make a kind of Faustian bargain: I know I want kids, I know I can't count on him to enable me to both have kids and pursue my career. But I want kids more than I care about this. So therefore I will either have kids and stop work (if he can afford it) or I will have kids, continue to work and accept that he won't do much to help me because it was me that really wanted the kids.

I don't think this is fair or right but I do think its an ultimate bargaining chip for many men. You wanted 'em, you deal with 'em. How we tackle this, I don't really know.

This is a really interesting point. Far more interesting than the OP and her acolytes on their strange hobby horses.

What I find really galling is when women are told, as often happens on here, that it is their own fault that they didn't find one of these unicorns. You'd think those women would be a bit appreciative of their luck, but instead they want to hit other women over the head with their own privilege.

The only way things will change is for society to make it unacceptable for men to be so feckless. Unfortunately with the huge number of men who benefit from this and the women who weirdly support them I can't see this happening any time soon.

IdSell · 23/07/2023 18:49

I think the big elephant in the room is that tackling male inertia at home may involve accepting that there are fewer men who desperately want kids than there are women who desperately want kids

I think this is true. Look at all the women who have multiple kids with feckless lazy men. It's not possible that all these men suddenly changed after having multiple kids. Fair enough if they only show their true colours after having one kid but why go on to have several more.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 23/07/2023 18:52

IdSell · 23/07/2023 18:49

I think the big elephant in the room is that tackling male inertia at home may involve accepting that there are fewer men who desperately want kids than there are women who desperately want kids

I think this is true. Look at all the women who have multiple kids with feckless lazy men. It's not possible that all these men suddenly changed after having multiple kids. Fair enough if they only show their true colours after having one kid but why go on to have several more.

Agree; I've been saying this for years and have zero sympathy for women who choose such men as bio-fathers of their offspring.

Hold out for better, or don't complain to me. I made sure I didn't end up in that situation by keeping my eyes wide open.

Original poster

YeahIsaidit · 23/07/2023 19:37

TwinsPlusAnotherOne · 22/07/2023 22:12

I think you are cherry picking trivial examples, where people are literally saying "even stuff as trivial as birthday cards all adds up" to then say, "this is trivial" and then ignoring the many other posts with far more relative content and illustrative examples.

With regards to "what bearing does it have on you" if you don't send the birthday card to MIL, well, she thinks my own son didn't even bother and his wife didn't even remember or remind him. So she thinks worse of you both. If you don't pick up the dry cleaning, then DH goes to his meeting wearing the only suit he has left in the house, an old one, ill fitting and dishevelled, and presents like this in his meeting, the boss takes note, unfavourably. A couple of incidents could be the difference between two very similar candidates getting the promotion and not. If I don't think about the meetings DH has, and meal plan around what times he will be home, and ensure the right clothes are ready, we would rarely eat together, and he would be in a flap every morning. Interestingly he also has ADHD (hence I take almost the whole mental load, he just wouldn't remember things, and not for trying) and I actually tried explaining mental load to him about a month ago, and much like this thread, it was like I was speaking Russian.

I have twins. So the epitome of your example of two being the same age. It's not just double the practical stuff. That's not mental load. That's physical chores. And don't get me wrong, there are indeed two lunches to make, two bathes to take etc. But the mental load side is that boy was ill on his last jabs so didn't have them, so he needs rebooking, so I'll need someone to have her while I do that. And her friend has asked her to her party, so I need a present and outfit and need to be in the next town over for 12, and take him somewhere while we wait, but get back by 2.30 to take eldest DC to train station. So then twins will need tea, but eldest DC won't. I'll need to get the bedding washed when I get back, 4 sets, and even that is making sure I wash in the right order so the twins sets are dry by 6pm and while they're drying, DS's can start being washed. All whilst doing this, DH is hosting at the races for work clients, so he'll be back late and eating late, and won't be around to speak to the vicar about twins baptism, so I'll need to run the hoover round quickly now because once DTwins are in bed I can't. But I'll need to get our tea on now because I can't be cooking when the vicars here. It's having remembered to fill in all the forms for the vicar. And the form for boy twins rugby, plus I know he's grown out of the kit, so I'll need to have a look for that tomorrow...but only between 10 and 11 because MIL is coming for 2pm and I need to pick DH up from the station by then, but not forgetting boy twin will need to nap by then, but girl twin won't, so actually I'll drive to get the rugby uniform because that way he can sleep on the way back in the car and maybe I'll drive the long way back to make sure he's extra rested and not cranky when in laws arrive. But girl twin will be getting restless in the car that long, so remembering get the dvd player ready to take tonight, and charged up, so she's quiet while he sleeps, and then potentially we can drive straight to DH.... And so on, and so on. Everything has a knock on effect, and you suddenly have to re plan the whole day because one link in the chain changes. And when there are 5 links, this is frequently.

Do you see it's not just having two more pairs of shoes to put on, or breaks to make. It's the juggling and meticulous planning to make many things align. And align successfully, not just clusterfuck and bodge our way through life. It's a huge mental load. The physical doing part is the easy bit.

OK so MIL card, "wife didn't bother to remind him" so another woman, thinks you should be responsible for DH and his not remembering... This is just sad, if HE forgets HIS mums birthday, that's on him, not you and if she thinks you're shit because of it then she's entirely unreasonable

Wearing a scruffy suit to a meeting to lose him a promotion. Again that's on DH, why can't he be responsible for his own clothes, do you lay his outfits out each day? If he doesn't get a promotion, again what bearing does that have on YOU? His career his problem

Why didn't you rebook the jabs when cancelling the first time? Isn't that the norm? Can't girl twin come to the docs with you for the 10 minutes it takes to get jabs?

What relevance does DH being out and not being home to meet the vicar have on what time you run the hoover round? I'm unsure of the relevance of this.

A lot sounds like it's being left to the last minute which of course would add stress, but again, easily solved

OP posts:

Original poster

YeahIsaidit · 23/07/2023 19:43

AnyOldThings · 23/07/2023 08:00

@YeahIsaidit If you’re diagnosed with ADHD I’d think you’d have more sympathy for the concept that just maybe not everyone’s brain works like yours.

The mental load to me means the pressure of always having to think & worry of everything e.g.:

Me:

is DD doing ok at college?
when does her next trip instalment need paying?
must arrange her bus pass
can we afford to save some spends for her trip?
keep checking for her next timetable as she worries about it and I need to support her.
is DH taking care of his health issue?
has he phoned the nurse to sort it?
he works away so I might need to sort his car insurance
is DH happy as his job is stressful
birthday coming up so need to plan
buy birthday decorations
wrap gifts
plan surprises
don’t forget to pick up cake
that leaking roof needs sorting
did we get the refund we were due?
the garden needs strimming.
need to get DD’s dress altered like I promised.
still some decorating to do - do I do it or book someone in.
can we afford the decorating?
that plug needs fixing
plan that weeks shopping / meals
is anyone bringing guests round this week as need to plan to feed them too.
need to phone family as not phoned in a while
menopause symptoms seem to be sneaking in, might need doctor.
need to clean bathroom.
works busy and stressful.
need to sort staff appraisals
must catch-up on 2 projects but never enough time in day.
shall I talk to my manager about x/y/z
need to plug in the adapter the WiFi provider sent but it means moving the tv and all wires to get to socket.
order clothes DD needs for college project.
need to get spare key cut.
need to measure for new curtains and order them.
DD had hospital appointments so I need to book off work but try not to leave them understaffed.
…… and about 3 x pages more but I’m getting tired of writing them down.

DH mental load:

go away to work knowing all other aspects of our life are taken care of.
move his dentist appointment

I’ve asked him. This is his right now!

So perhaps, just perhaps, to some people who don’t think like the OP, the mental load sums it up nicely.

I have days when the mental to do list in my head overwhelms me. And using the term mental load describes that overwhelm well to me so OP - YABU.

OK a lot of this is thinking...

Is DD OK, ask her, it's easy, doesn't everyone worry about their DC?

DH health issue, ask them, it's up to him to call the nurse to sort it, if he doesn't well he's gonna feel a bit grim a bit longer isn't he. Regards the job, again, ASK... The insurance, is he working away with no net access to sort it himself?

The refund, take a few seconds to check online banking.

The grass needs strimmed, right so do it? I could look out my window and think the fence needs painted, how's that stressful or a mental load. Oh look the sky is blue, that cat is white. You sound a bit dippy. Same goes for the key and the plug, just go get it cut then?

You don't have to feed guests, you're not responsible for catering to guests particularly those you haven't invited yourself, if whoever invites them wants them to stay for dinner or whatever that's their problem to sort not yours.

I think about stuff all day, don't most people, is it really stressful? Am I doing it wrong?

OP posts:

Gerrataere · 23/07/2023 19:48

YeahIsaidit · 23/07/2023 19:43

OK a lot of this is thinking...

Is DD OK, ask her, it's easy, doesn't everyone worry about their DC?

DH health issue, ask them, it's up to him to call the nurse to sort it, if he doesn't well he's gonna feel a bit grim a bit longer isn't he. Regards the job, again, ASK... The insurance, is he working away with no net access to sort it himself?

The refund, take a few seconds to check online banking.

The grass needs strimmed, right so do it? I could look out my window and think the fence needs painted, how's that stressful or a mental load. Oh look the sky is blue, that cat is white. You sound a bit dippy. Same goes for the key and the plug, just go get it cut then?

You don't have to feed guests, you're not responsible for catering to guests particularly those you haven't invited yourself, if whoever invites them wants them to stay for dinner or whatever that's their problem to sort not yours.

I think about stuff all day, don't most people, is it really stressful? Am I doing it wrong?

Show quote history

‘Ask her, ask him, just do this that and the other yourself, forget social etiquette…’

I can’t decide if you’re wilfully ignorant, deliberately contentious or have neurodivergency yourself that means you personally don’t have the capacity to understand the meaning of the mental load in this context.

Libelula21 · 23/07/2023 19:49

Haven’t read the full thread but I think the term originated from a female French feminist graphic artist, Emma

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

Sounds like the OP has excellent executive function. I’m ADHDish and a widow,and the mental load for me is huge. I spend too much time online though!

The gender wars of household chores: a feminist comic | Gender | The Guardian

French comic artist <strong>Emma</strong> introduces the concept of the mental load. When a man expects his partner to ask him to do things, he is viewing her as the manager of their household chores

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

lieselotte · 23/07/2023 19:58

Fairislefandango · 23/07/2023 08:07

A lot seems like added self made unnecessary stress

What do you mean by that? That people are inventing pointless tasks they have no need to do?

Yes exactly that. Things that mums perceive need doing, or they feel guilty not doing, but don't need doing at all.

The example above - buying a present for your husband of behalf of MIL. Unless ill, MIL can buy it herself - either in person, online or over the phone.

It never crossed my mind to do birthday cards or presents for my husbands family. It wantn't a matter of me making a stance about it, it literally didn't occur to me to do it indeed - my DH writes his own cards and gets his own presents.

Fizbosshoes · 23/07/2023 20:03

You don't have to feed guests, you're not responsible for catering to guests particularly those you haven't invited yourself, if whoever invites them wants them to stay for dinner or whatever that's their problem to sort not yours.

Often my DC ask if they can bring a friend home after school, or can their mates come over in the holiday. Now they are teens they can sort out their own snacks but when they were first home alone, maybe at 11 or 12 I wouldn't have expected them to monitor what was in the cupboards/fridge/freezer before asking, and its not exactly unreasonable that kids might want to eat!

Original poster

YeahIsaidit · 23/07/2023 20:11

Gerrataere · 23/07/2023 19:48

‘Ask her, ask him, just do this that and the other yourself, forget social etiquette…’

I can’t decide if you’re wilfully ignorant, deliberately contentious or have neurodivergency yourself that means you personally don’t have the capacity to understand the meaning of the mental load in this context.

Show quote history

Where does social etiquette come into it, don't you ask your family how they are?

I'm just pointing out why this mental labour for the most part is bullshit and either self made, easily sorted or all of the above. People are getting their knickers into a bunch over stupid shit or things that are very easily sorted and then attaching a ridiculous term to it to try to reinforce that they have a right to complain about normal every day life that every one deals with

OP posts:

Original poster

YeahIsaidit · 23/07/2023 20:12

Fizbosshoes · 23/07/2023 20:03

You don't have to feed guests, you're not responsible for catering to guests particularly those you haven't invited yourself, if whoever invites them wants them to stay for dinner or whatever that's their problem to sort not yours.

Often my DC ask if they can bring a friend home after school, or can their mates come over in the holiday. Now they are teens they can sort out their own snacks but when they were first home alone, maybe at 11 or 12 I wouldn't have expected them to monitor what was in the cupboards/fridge/freezer before asking, and its not exactly unreasonable that kids might want to eat!

It'd be a bit mean to leave your kids home alone with nothing to eat, they shouldn't had to have had checked to see if there was food there

OP posts:

UrsulaIsMyQueen · 23/07/2023 20:15

I have a disabled child. My life consists of a lot of form filling, meetings, therapy sessions, doing therapy activities outside of the sessions, researching therapies, making medical appointments, attending medical appointments… on top of a full time job. I also have 2 other children, with the normal duties that come along with that. Yes I refer to that as ‘the mental load’, and yes it’s a lot. If I just had one, older child who didn’t require extra care, maybe I’d agree with you.

Zanatdy · 23/07/2023 20:15

Yep agree. It’s a new term banded about on MN. I’ve never heard anyone in real life say ‘I carry the mental load’. It’s just life isn’t it, making appointments, ensuring kids have their packed lunch. It seems like it’s a term people use to have a go at their partner with. I have to carry the mental load. In my experience it’s just part of being mum, but I don’t have a partner to share that load with anyway. Their dad wouldn’t ever think to make a dental check up for them, but it’s hardly a massive strain on me having to do that every 6 months. In general yes it P’s me off I do so much more but that’s life hey.

Gerrataere · 23/07/2023 20:23

YeahIsaidit · 23/07/2023 20:11

Where does social etiquette come into it, don't you ask your family how they are?

I'm just pointing out why this mental labour for the most part is bullshit and either self made, easily sorted or all of the above. People are getting their knickers into a bunch over stupid shit or things that are very easily sorted and then attaching a ridiculous term to it to try to reinforce that they have a right to complain about normal every day life that every one deals with

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try to reinforce that they have a right to complain about normal every day life that every one deals with

Not everyone. Women. Just women 99% of the time. That’s the point, that’s the problem. And yes we have a right to complain when men walk through the door and switch their brains off to anything that needs doing unless told to by a woman (or more likely have the attitude you do - if you see it needs doing then do it yourself). If you don’t see the problem with that then you are the problem. A problem you are actively perpetuating by denying it’s existence.

Gerrataere · 23/07/2023 20:31

In my experience it’s just part of being mum, but I don’t have a partner to share that load with anyway. Their dad wouldn’t ever think to make a dental check up for them, but it’s hardly a massive strain on me having to do that every 6 months.

@Zanatdy no, it’s part of being a parent not just a mum. The huge self ingrained misogyny is why you don’t recognise what the issue is. You flippantly say ‘well no dad would never think of making a dental appointment’ without even questioning why. You’ve just resigned yourself into believing that men just don’t have the capacity to do these things for their own children.

What would happen if goodness forbid something happened and you were no longer your child’s main caregiver? Would they never go to the dentist again?

TwinsPlusAnotherOne · 23/07/2023 20:38

YeahIsaidit · 23/07/2023 19:37

OK so MIL card, "wife didn't bother to remind him" so another woman, thinks you should be responsible for DH and his not remembering... This is just sad, if HE forgets HIS mums birthday, that's on him, not you and if she thinks you're shit because of it then she's entirely unreasonable

Wearing a scruffy suit to a meeting to lose him a promotion. Again that's on DH, why can't he be responsible for his own clothes, do you lay his outfits out each day? If he doesn't get a promotion, again what bearing does that have on YOU? His career his problem

Why didn't you rebook the jabs when cancelling the first time? Isn't that the norm? Can't girl twin come to the docs with you for the 10 minutes it takes to get jabs?

What relevance does DH being out and not being home to meet the vicar have on what time you run the hoover round? I'm unsure of the relevance of this.

A lot sounds like it's being left to the last minute which of course would add stress, but again, easily solved

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You sound incredibly closed minded.

What bearing does my husband's career have on me? His career, his problem?

Oh nothing at all, it's only how we finance our home and all the people in it. No biggie.

Why would MIL think I'm "shit" if she didn't receive a birthday card? Because I've known her for over a decade. She is someone I hold dearly. But in your weird chain of thinking, "not your mum, not your problem". Of course she'd be upset if I forgot her birthday, rightly so. She's family. Equally as upset that DH forgot.

Jabs, girl twin was howling (because jabs) and I didn't join the queue there and then to rebook, when I also had poorly boy twin to get back too. They weren't cancelled, he just woke up unwell, and the appointment was about an hour later. No, I couldn't just call ahead (pointless with an hour to go) and cancel one, and rebook, because I was calling DM to come and look after boy twin, whilst getting girl twin ready, and looking after boy twin. Again, with one DC, these things don't occur to you, you continue with this "well you'd just do what I'd do, there's merely extra children, which hardly makes a difference"

DH not being home? Well I can't ask him to hoover, or fill out the church paperwork, while I cook tea and put DTwins to bed because he's not there. If I didn't have to hoover because he could do it, (which has to be done before DT fall asleep) I could start the dinner, but I have to order things around which family members are there and their needs.

Nothing is left to the last minute, although sometimes things change and that can't be helped. It all sounds very hectic/stressful/last minute to you because you are not in a high mental load situation. It's not hectic or complicated to me. It's simply what's required for a family with multiple DC.

It made me chuckle when a PP wrote "And breathe" after a narrative of a typical less than 24 hours in our household. She obviously saw that as exhausting. It's not at all for me, it's the norm. I'm not stumbling through the day. It's just what a huge mental load looks like. Having a huge mental load, and acknowledging it, doesn't mean you aren't coping with it.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 23/07/2023 20:44

You sound incredibly closed minded.

It would be more mature and civilized if people had the discipline to discuss the topic without making personal attacks or insults toward those who hold differing opinions.

TwinsPlusAnotherOne · 23/07/2023 20:47

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 23/07/2023 20:44

You sound incredibly closed minded.

It would be more mature and civilized if people had the discipline to discuss the topic without making personal attacks or insults toward those who hold differing opinions.

Personal attack? Oh behave yourself.

Pointing out that, yes, funnily enough, one of the two adults running the home having a good career, and the money it brings in, or not, is not just the concern of the person doing the job.

It is indeed incredibly closed minded to look at the person who financially supports themselves and 4 other people, and say, that's got no bearing on those other 4 people, it's not their job, not their problem.

Original poster

YeahIsaidit · 23/07/2023 20:50

TwinsPlusAnotherOne · 23/07/2023 20:47

Personal attack? Oh behave yourself.

Pointing out that, yes, funnily enough, one of the two adults running the home having a good career, and the money it brings in, or not, is not just the concern of the person doing the job.

It is indeed incredibly closed minded to look at the person who financially supports themselves and 4 other people, and say, that's got no bearing on those other 4 people, it's not their job, not their problem.

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What I'm gathering from this and your previous reply is, your DH is carrying the entire financial load for the household which must be more stressful than taking kids to parties and running the hoover around. Got it

OP posts: