AIBU to hate the term mental load?

[YeahIsaidit]

I cringe every time I read it, people lamenting that they can't cope with the mental load, partners aren't taking on an equal share of the mental load, argh! They're chores, household tasks, jobs. Mental load makes it sound like you're suffering from some kind of mental health issue rather than being dragged down by housework, stop it.

Having a word for this is a win for feminism because it allows women to easily express exactly what you are saying in your second paragraph here.
Agree.

What stands out to me coming back to the thread is that there's a lot of objections about having a word to explain a series of often invisible responsibilities that affect women more than men.

Somehow it's got to the point where women having a word to describe a situation is somehow them oppressing themselves, as if removing the phrase 'mental load' will make the mental load go away. It won't. It just removes a clear way of highlighting the problem.

It makes you wonder who benefits from telling women not to have a phrase hat describes their experience because "everyone has to do stuff, stop whining about doing everything, you choose to, just stop doing it even if it means your children aren't adequately cared for". Oh yes, men who can conveniently pretend the fairies run the home.

Yes I think I am like this too!

I'm struggling to see how this is remotely a 'win' for feminism. Surely a win is not doing everything and standing up for what's right. Perhaps living some kind of equality.

Delusional is what springs to mind. Categorising invisible work. Really? It's not invisible as it sticks out like a sore thumb and men are well aware of it. They just choose not to do it. Women doing it is the exact opposite of being a win for feminism.

I'm struggling to see how this is remotely a 'win' for feminism. Surely a win is not doing everything and standing up for what's right. Perhaps living some kind of equality.
The win is that when you have the words to describe a set of behaviours/a phenomenon THEN there's a discussion to be had because having the phrase to describe it forces an acknowledgement that there is a phenomenon there.

Without a phrase to talk about the behaviours you get the inevitable mix of cool girls and lazy men saying "but it's just housework, everyone does the dishes, maybe you overwhelmed martyr women are too bothered about arranging your fridge".

Without a word to describe all the mental responsibility and default responsible adult, it's very, very easy to dismiss the reality that for many women they ARE carrying too much and their partners aren't doing their fair share.

Without a word/phrase for it, the workload goes back to being this invisible set of responsibility that will, in many relationships, fall to women.

Telling women not to use the phrase 'mental load' isn't going to make the domestic load and the mental responsibility for children magically vanish.

Identifying it, explicitly highlighting it in our lives and then expecting our partners to step up and acknowledge what needs doing is a win for feminism.

I wouldn’t call it a win personally but I can see how having a name for it makes it easier to identify and discuss it, which is necessary if we’re ever to have a hope of sharing it more fairly.

It’s an important phrase. My 17y son and 20y daughter get it and use it. They reflect on jobs in the home and how they are divided. I hope they will continue to think about the concept, and enter relationships where there is a fair dynamic.

Interesting how young adults can recognise it as an important social phenomenon, yet some women here with more life experience don’t seem to understand the significance. It’s not just about remembering to book the dentist once. It’s an approach and mindset.

I wouldn’t call it a win personally but I can see how having a name for it makes it easier to identify and discuss it, which is necessary if we’re ever to have a hope of sharing it more fairly
Small wins matter though don't they.

It starts to shift away from the long-standing assumption that Mum is default parent and Mum will sort everything out.

I find it hard when women are more bothered about telling other women off for using a phrase that describes their experiences than they are about the issue itself (especially when it seems to come with the baggage suggesting that they oppress themselves, they choose to take on the load, they are martyrs, etc).

@LolaSmiles
Your point is actually neatly highlighted by this thread where the OP says - we don’t need a word for this stuff because it’s nothing. Women have invented a word to describe mostly their role and work in the household. Another woman comes along and tells them they don’t need a word because it’s not real work and not a real problem. You remove the language to talk about it you shut down the debate. It’s useful to have an umbrella term rather than get into the minutiae of remembering dentist appointments and meal planning, which can easily be picked apart.

It’s exactly what my ex used to do - claim these things were all really easy so why was I complaining about them (when he wouldn’t do them at all) or claim they didn’t need doing at all (argued that we shouldn’t bother updating our address after moving as he didn’t want his post anyway and the 2 year old didn’t need birthday presents and insurances should auto-renew at cost of hundreds of pounds etc.).

It’s like going onto a thread where someone is struggling with the responsibility of being a parent for whatever reason and saying- well it’s just changing the odd nappy and you chose to be a parent anyway so why are you moaning and btw this is how you change a nappy you idiot. Why do you need the term parenting when it’s literally just changing a nappy and taking them to school - and no one dies if they don’t go anyway.

If you have a big family then there’s a lot to do there’s not just bunging on a wash and putting dinner in the oven. I have four kids, one is a young adult but seems to still need quite a lot of time from me. One is a toddler and the other two at school. It’s a lot to organise as the middle ones have home work, clubs, sports, ongoing send support. Organising childcare for days I work and anticipating when that won’t be available. I just call it being a mother, but to say the work of it doesn’t exist is disingenuous.

@Circe7 👏

Circe7
Very well said.

Removing the language to describe something is usually done to avoid discussing the issue at hand.

It's very convenient to want to remove the phrase 'mental load' if (generic) your worldview is baked in misogynistic assumptions that the load women take on is nothing but a bunch of martyr mummies who are making the whole thing up.

The more aerated we all become, the strangely calmer, more smug and content the OP’s posts become.

Coincidental? Or goady as fuck enjoying getting a good rise out of a lot of well-informed women who feel strongly about something.

Yuk, I can’t bear to feed the beast any longer. I’m out!

Sure, but you keep saying that it needs recognising because of some misguided belief that men don't know what it's all about. Like it's some elusive, undiscovered thing that only women can see.

If that makes you feel better then you do you and carry on. In this case there's really no wonder why certain men get praised so much. Ironically feminists hate it when some men get huge recognition for doing stuff that women normally do. Yet listening to you it's obvious why, because people like my partner have a rare super power of having female eyes. Somehow he was born with the ability to recognise responsibility and share in running a home and raising his kids. Unbelievable eh.

Noone is telling you not to use the phrase, just that it's nonsense and sounds ridiculous. The men you're talking about aren't blind but taking you for mugs. Men saying, "Oh, I didn't realise" translates to, "shit I've been rumbled". It doesn't matter what you call it, it ain't a win for feminism; simply because these men don't actually care. They aren't interested in being enlightened by a buzzword to describe stuff they'll do so incompetently they'll never have to do it again.

The mental load usually refers to the women being left to not only do but think for an entire household, meaning two adults, and around the wants, needs, expectations or even demands of that person

As a single parent there is a lot you have to do and by yourself, but thinking for another adult is not one of them, and you can do it all on your own terms and as you say "get on with it"

Sure, but you keep saying that it needs recognising because of some misguided belief that men don't know what it's all about. Like it's some elusive, undiscovered thing that only women can see.
It does need recognising because as this thread shows, there's too many people who are like "oh it's not even a thing, silly foolish women martyr themselves and complain about having to go to the shop for milk". 🙄

If that makes you feel better then you do you and carry on. In this case there's really no wonder why certain men get praised so much. Ironically feminists hate it when some men get huge recognition for doing stuff that women normally do.
Yet listening to you it's obvious why, because people like my partner have a rare super power of having female eyes. Somehow he was born with the ability to recognise responsibility and share in running a home and raising his kids. Unbelievable eh.
You're making some huge reaches here. 😂😂

I'm in a relationship with a man who carries his share of the mental load.

I also know that's because he was raised to know that the load was for everyone in a house to take responsibility for.

Both DH and I both know that unfortunately society tends to socialise boys into men who consciously and subconsciously don't consider domestic load their responsibility.

On some things like tidying I think men who say they don't notice mess are full of shit. They see the mess and they know it needs dealing with, but choose not to. On other things I really do think that the socialisation goes deep, just like it's no coincidence that so much of what's classed as empowerment on women's beauty standards happens to neatly overlap with old fashioned sexist stereotypes about women appealing to the male gaze.

The only people who lose out by diminishing the load that is disproportionately shouldered by women are the women who are carrying it.

I agree

Noone is saying it's not a thing at all. Just that it doesn't need a wanky name. It most definitely is a thing, just that women make a rod for their own backs by doing it all. In the name of feminism obvs.

You're right. Some men don't consider domestic stuff their responsibility. Ergo it's not invisible, clearly. Given this, attaching a name and doing it all isn't going to progress much is it. Getting hitched with said men is the issue and enabling their beliefs.

It makes absolutely zero sense but crack on.

There is a lot going on here though! Asymmetrical approaches to life are not automatically about male and female socialisation.

So we're back again that women are causing their own oppression. 🙄

Oh and women are hitching themselves to men and enabling men if they have a phrase to describe in short hand way the range of mental tasks that go into running a home.

Some of the load is invisible and it rests on women. Mental load isn't just about the act of doing domestic tasks. There's countless articles documenting women's lived experiences.

At no point did I say asking someone to do something was nagging, repeatedly reminding someone to do something and checking and double checking is though, "I have to repeatedly remind DH to..." No, you don't. Imagine you're at work and your boss is on at you every 5 mins to do x task and hovering around making sure everything is done just right, you'd be pissed off, no? Thinking fuck sake I know what I'm doing leave me alone... This is the vibe I'm getting from people who are "constantly reminding" honestly I'd be surprised if most who get this all the time don't zone out entirely and just not hear what's being said, it's irritating as fuck hello mental white noise to drown it out. Maybe it's the stubborn bitch in me but I'd just not do stuff if I was always reminded or told to, treat me like a child I'll act like one.

Yes if you see a job needs doing you should do it, why would you walk by a loaded sink or full laundry hamper in the hopes someone else would notice it? It's not reinforcing misogynistic gender roles by doing it, it's just not being a lazy slob.

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune

Well, that's a relationship issue. Don't pick a slacker partner if you don't want a slacker partner.

This is such a canard. And been gone over so many times on this thread. Yes it’s a relationship issue but it’s much harder to challenge relationships when ingrained gender stereotypes and history constantly backs up the partner who is not picking up the slack.

And also “slacker partners” don’t come with a barcode.

It’s keeping track of several other peoples schedules and how they relate to each other. How to juggle it so the dentist appointment falls on your day off for example and the children’s time out of school when they have nothing else… but one child is busy mon-wed and the other wed-fri so which times will fit in. It’s easy to pick up a phone and make the appointment once the other stuff has been checked or if you are just doing it for yourself.

As a single parent I find it exhausting working full time, making sure house chores are done then all the planning around my and the children’s lives when we all have different things happening and nobody else able to take a bit of the planning of what will happen when. It gets done but only because I’ve worked it all out. That is the mental load. All the stuff going on in your head when you’re busy with other chores.

"I have to repeatedly remind DH to..." No, you don't. Imagine you're at work and your boss is on at you every 5 mins to do x task and hovering around making sure everything is done just right, you'd be pissed off, no? Thinking fuck sake I know what I'm doing leave me alone...

We know not to do that at work, and we also respect people to do their work their way too as different styles achieve acceptable results.

So if you live with someone who does the job of managing kids in a far more detailed and controlled manner than you, aren't you just going to let them get on with it in the same way you would be expected to at work?

The laundry basket for example.

After five days at work do I honestly need to give a shit if I'm collecting washing off the floor pile or from a basket at the weekend? We've all had a busy week, and I haven't wasted my evenings on family training sessions on transfering items to a basket prior to them being transferred elsewhere to wash, and arguing with everyone over the appropriate recepticle in the appropriate location. It's a bit sad to think that's a mental load anyone even thinks is important enough to claim is freaking oppression.

I certainly wouldn't start doing that for you as it's only you that is actually bothered by it and thinks it's important.

Having read this thread you can guarantee that the demanders of all this over the top and unnecessary micro managing paperwork in schools are the same women oppressed by their mental load.

No wonder the NHS is collapsing under the weight of these mental load make work generating people. It all makes sense now. Thanks 👍

Yes if you see a job needs doing you should do it, why would you walk by a loaded sink or full laundry hamper in the hopes someone else would notice it? It's not reinforcing misogynistic gender roles by doing it, it's just not being a lazy slob.

OP at this point you are either a troll, being obtuse or just not very intelligent. People have explained it to you so many times, it is so simple, yet you just refuse to take what people are saying on board. What is the point in anyone replying to you if you refuse to do that?

The reason people would walk past the sink - as you would well know if you had paid attention to any of the several pages of responses here - is because it's a chore nobody likes doing and, if it's left to you every time by an equally able fellow adult who lives there too, you resent having to do it every time rather than sharing the load.

To take that logic to it's end, if two adults lived together, both worked full time, and one of them did 100% of the housework while the other did nothing, the one left doing it all would not be a lazy slob for not just happily doing it all and for thinking the other person should get off their arse and chip in.

That is obvious. Have you read any of the responses you've received here? Because it really doesn't seem that way, or else your comprehension skills are incredibly low.