This isn't our heat wave, but the next one could be

[orangeleavesinautumn]

Or if we mess up the jet stream, arctic winters.

We have really messed up horrifically, haven't we.

I am scared its too late to put right

@Teateaandmoretea

I know one person who refuses to fly and she’s just driven to Italy when there was a flight going anyway - would her extra weight on the flight really be worse than driving there?

I thing that's a fair question but that's one those arguments where you can choose the data to support your POV..

Certainly the newer types of short haul and Long Haul aircraft can, when full, do far better in terms of fuel used per passenger per mile than most if not all ICE cars. Things like the A321 neos, 787s and 350s run on fumes compared with the the older 737s and things like 747s that were in the vogue maybe 20 or 25 years ago...

The environmentalists will point out that nevertheless there are factors such as the CO2 produced by aircraft and where the various emissions get deposited...

Then again and OTOH there's the whole issue of other emissions as in noise (round the airport vs. on the roads), the emissions (engine/brake dust ) etc the car produces at ground level....

Is that non-committal enough? 😊

This is it. Food and clothes were very expensive some 100 years ago, by far an individual’s main expenditure. We got used to everything being cheap (at environmental and third world country expense) and are now outraged we can’t simultaneously have everything cheap and ‘have the government do something’ about the climate crisis.

We need to take individual responsibility for this mess as well as blaming the government (which is really just a 4 yearly revolving door of infallible humans).

We need to rebalance what we see as a good standard of living. Right now that’s one or two holidays a year, eating expensive meat virtually every day of the week, driving most places and having expensive beauty routines of fake nails and lashes (I’ve lost count of the number of RL people I see on cost of living documentaries who have fake nails and lashes), living in houses big enough to have a spare room.

It needs to be simple mostly vegetarian meals, unnecessary air travel a thing of the past, getting by with the bare minimum of products/chemicals we can manage with, walking/cycling and having smaller pleasures in life. But try saying that and you’ll be met with fury!

@FFSwhatisthis Mad isn't it. I'm up in West Yorkshire, June was warm but it took an unusually long time for summer to get started, April and May were cool when they're usually hot. Now July is cool and rainy.

Summer to me used to be only using a sheet on the bed, putting away my boots until autumn, paddling pool out constantly. But this year I've had heater on, full duvet, pool out once. I'm not complaining as I love cool weather! But can't relate to it getting hotter.

The heatwave days last year were 40+, felt a lot hotter generally over the whole summer too

And wearing my boots!

Another disingenuous and alarmist article. Buried deep, if you care to read beyond the headline, is the phrase "if emissions continue unabated". Nobody but nobody (okay a few loons) have any intention of continuing carbon emissions.

If they go stripping away everyone’s enjoyment and freedoms with a series of prohibitive taxes, so only the very wealthy can go on holiday, will they be voted back in? Of course not.

Very true. Flying is bad for the environment but people understandably really enjoy and look forward to travelling. It’s going to be very hard to persuade them not to do it.

@CampsieGlamper the 1970s hysteria was press ignorance and spin. It was based on studies that showed solar activity could be linked to the so called little ice age of the 13c to 18c. It hypothesized that this could happen in the future.

Until recently we have been in period of solar inactivity so the climate should be cooling. Obviously it isn't.

The average Indian citizen has 1/3 the carbon footprint of the average UK citizen.

Agree too, polluting our oceans, destroying our forests, stripping out all the minerals is what needs to stop really. The natural world may have come with trees and plants to mitigate the impact of co2 but if we get rid of them cos we have to keep building houses or for other infrastructure then of course it will have an impact.

We don't need more things being produced if we did keep over populating the planet.

Quite frankly I want the option to be put to sleep without pain if I have a life limiting or terminal illness. We put animals down to end their suffering but seem so determined to keep humans suffering cos they must stay alive at all costs.

Can you stop with your ridiculous patronising face palms and laughing faces. I have been bothered about these issues since the early 90s. And trying to do something about them.

Can you stop with your ridiculous patronising face palms and laughing faces.

They've only been deployed where merited.

I have been bothered about these issues since the early 90s. And trying to do something about them.

How's that going?

I think a lot of older people are concerned about climate change. Far more than a lot of youngsters. It is not older people who go to music festivals and walk away leaving their tents, their barbeques, chairs, food etc and then buy another tent, barbeque etc for the next festival.

I am 69 and DH is 66. We chose to have no children because, even 43 years ago when we got married, we felt the planet was overpopulated and not really a nice place to bring children into.

We have been vegetarian for 35 years. We haven't flown since 2017 and, in fact, have only have flown 5 times in total and all short flights. We don't buy things unless they are really needed and, even then, we almost always buy secondhand.

We do have a car but we need one as we live 6 miles from the nearest town and the buses are pretty non existent.

Most of our friends are similar ages and they live very much like us. Most have chosen not to have children and quite a few are veggie. Also my siblings although they do have 2 children each and are not veggie are very conscious of climate change, recyle, very rarely fly etc

There are things that could be done but the problem is you would essentially need to fundamentally change all of modern day human society in order to make any kind of dent - it would be the end of consumerism, the end of capitalism.

It would also have to be the end of democracy, @Plennury. Otherwise people can just vote out anyone who tries take the necessary radical action.

You are 100% correct, i wish i had the answer.

I don’t particularly notice that many late teens and early 20s are very eco-bothered. Just for starters, teen niece has told me of more than one case of friends putting the washing machine on for just one item they wanted to wear later. Followed by the tumble drier for the same one thing.

Re China (and other relatively cheap-labour countries) the reason we import so much is because it’s all so much cheaper than manufacturing it here.

I’m old enough to remember when most clothes and household goods were made in the U.K. - and relative to incomes were a lot more expensive. M&S used to have signs in the shops, saying that 99% of their goods were British made. I’d be surprised if it’s even 1% now.

We don't. The west is an unsustainable, immoral, rapidly overcrowded, ponzi scheme. We need managed population decline. Not just for environmental reasons.

@sugartree managed population decline? That sounds sinister! How do you propose to do that?

I agree. While I believe that co2 probably has an impact I think it’s all part of the earth’s patterns too.

sigh. It has been unequivocally proven, again and again and again that we are the cause of climate change. Rapid climate change, not the earth pattern climate change, that takes over hundreds of thousands to a million of years. We took...industrial revolution to now. I can’t believe people are still climate change deniers. why, is it because you genuinely are misinformed, didnt bother to read any scientific studies or are you being sceptical for the sake of being sceptical...Read please about planetary boundaries, not just climate change. Warming is one of them. Pollutants, water use are others. They are all breached (sorry 5 out of 6 are breached 6th is very close). This creates a turbulent chaotic ecosystem that feeds into each other, accelerates change. It is much much much worse than you think....

It has never been proven that CO2 emissions are the only cause. Sigh. 🙄

Not sure anyone is claiming co2 emissions are the ONLY cause. It's well known that methane for example is a more potent greenhouse gas. However as warming accelerates, more methane will be released from frozen soil and from the sea. Hence the term "runaway climate change".

It's very scary.

I really want to cry when I read posts like yours teamoretea...Sigh right back at you. How can people be so dismissive when the science is extremely clear...It is really as clear as black and white. Of course it has been proven that green house emissions are one of the major causes of climate change. Please read this EU report: https://climate.ec.europa.eu/climate-change/causes-climate-change_en#:~:text=CO2%20produced%20by%20human,largest%20contributor%20to%20global%20warming.

Please please read scientific studies. Read UN. Here, to make it easier for the general public, you can read summaries of the most cited papers all the way back from the 60s: https://www.carbonbrief.org/the-most-influential-climate-change-papers-of-all-time/#:~:text=Wetherald%20published%20in%20the%20Journal,change%20paper%20of%20all%20time.

IPCC is the main intergovernmental body: www.ipcc.ch which synthesises the science and advises policy

My point was that it is not just climate change. Humans have destabilised the ecosystem and planetary boundaries have been breached. Planetary boundaries are determined by decades of study of the earth system. Climate change, pollution, water scarcity - all related. They reinforce each other.

and here we are...still. trying to explain to people who simply do not “believe” it. The good thing about science is that it is true whether you believe it or not.

I haven't caught up and RTFT but am beginning to get frustrated by the number of people recommending a vegan diet over eating meat and dairy. I believe that a locally based diet is far better than eating vegetables that have been flown around the world. Even better, grow your own.

Growing corn is also detrimental to biodiversity and uses a considerable amount of fossil fuel. Without animals to fertilize the soil, we will need to manufacture fertilizers using more fossil fuels. Commercial food production of any type is detrimental to the planet so if you wish to be environmentally friendly then buy locally produced food of whatever kind and eat more venison!

Also, to all the dog owners, if you own a dog you are probably doubling your meat consumption.

The Government needs to take action to ban cheap imported goods, particularly unsustainable products of all kinds- that would have a huge impact. Forcing companies to be sustainable, both here and abroad if they want to access our markets, would be huge step in the right direction. Unfortunately it wont happen because nobody could afford to pay the prices but it is definitely a direction we should be moving in.

Dogs can be vegetarian. Cats can’t.

Btw, I had writte, we, humans, are the cause of this, have you even read properly what I wrote teamoretea...

@HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas That's why I said 'probably'. Not many people feed their dogs a wholly vegetarian diet and even then most vegan dog food contains soy that has been transported thousands of miles so is no better for the planet.