This isn't our heat wave, but the next one could be

[orangeleavesinautumn]

Or if we mess up the jet stream, arctic winters.

We have really messed up horrifically, haven't we.

I am scared its too late to put right

@Keykat

Are they placing a major prohibitive tax on air and cruise travel? Not that I know of.

Depends how you define "major prohibitive" but FWIW latest UK Air Passenger Duty, charged on the sector ex-UK.

Distance from London, Economy tax/Business Tax per seat...

0 to 2000 miles £ 13/ £ 26
2,001 to 5,500 miles £ 87/ £ 191
over 5,500 miles £ 91/ £ 200

I'd have to check but it one point it was probably the highest in Europe, if not one of the highest in the world.

I'm sure many will approve but what it has tended to do is encourage savvy travellers to take two flights rather than one:

...e.g. London>Amsterdam>USA, rather than
London>USA..

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/air-passenger-duty-banding-reforms-from-april-2023/air-passenger-duty-banding-reforms-and-rates-from-1-april-2023-to-31-march-2024

@SunnyEgg i think you might be thinking of the gulf stream. Funnily enough I was just saying to dh earlier that the gulf stream doesn't get mentioned much these days. I certainly remember learning at school that it could get switched off, which would mean the UK got colder. I don't know what the current thinking is.

PurpleWisteria1
But something has to give, we may have to go through a period like you suggested until the population reaches it natural sustainable level again, unpalatable but my have to happen, the population can not keep growing at its present rate.

Well, I'm with the Co, who used to be fairly green, but I'm not quite sure they still are. And I switched my pension to the supposedly more ethical option a few years back.

For anyone with Nest:

https://www.nestpensions.org.uk/schemeweb/nest/investing-your-pension/fund-choices/ethical-fund.html

Any suggestions for better greener choices are welcome!

notimagain
yet again it will be the rich that can still travel, not making any difference to the problem

Hi yes I know there is an air travel tax in most countries, but it is relatively small and obviously not a disincentive. Airlines have trimmed costs for the passengers also, so even with the tax it is probably cheaper per kilometre to fly to say Malaga than it is to take a train from London to Edinburgh.

I don't think current air tax/charges put any travellers off TBH.

🤣🤣🤣
Most older people I know are a lot less consumerist than younger people - especially my parents generation bought up during the war - things were bought once, then repaired, clothes altered/mended and then reused as cleaning rags etc. No food waste - all leftovers made into another meal etc.

Laughing emojis because this is such a ridiculous post I couldn't take you seriously.

I do agree with all of that. People will not do any of these things voluntarily.

But government rely on votes to govern. If they go stripping away everyone’s enjoyment and freedoms with a series of prohibitive taxes, so only the very wealthy can go on holiday, will they be voted back in? Of course not. I haven’t been on an aeroplane for 7 years (or on holiday bar camping in U.K.), so I would be fine with it, but I can see how most people just wouldn’t be.

Yes the Gulf Stream

I’m thinking of my dc and options and I’m wondering what is likely for the UK

I realise a lot is incoming but it is a factor

So much arrogance on this thread about how WE the masters of the universe can save planet earth. I totally agree we should be environmentally conscious and for the record I am. I am one of the few people I know who don’t pave over their front garden.

I wholeheartedly support caring for our environment but there isn't half a load of bollocks being talked. The earth is continually changing. At one time North America was a humid swamp with dinosaurs roaming around. The earth goes hot and then it cools down. We didn’t cause the ice age did we?
I really hope those of you with kids are not filling their head with this scaremongering all the time. You have no idea what is going to happen and neither do I. We have been here for a speck of time and we will be gone again one day despite what we do and what we don’t do. This is what history teaches us. Be green but know your place in the world and understand that we actually understand fuck all. Scientists are not all knowing creatures, they are human. Remember SAGE scientists?? Right on the ball weren’t they?

If they won’t do it voluntarily they won’t voluntarily vote for it either.

The Gulfstream and the Jetstream are two different things.

Gulfstream brings us our mild wet winters and not so hot summers via mild, wet air driven by ocean current circulation of warmer air from the tropics, moved NE. Global warming may well affect global oceanic circulation patterns, especially with added melting ice at the poles. Loss of the Gulfstream would mean our climate would be more extreme. We are on a latitude similar to Moscow, so take of that what you will. Without the softening effect of the Gulfstream our climate will change.

The Jetstream is a moving area of fast air driven by the climate cells of planet earth. Different thing.

omg people are still arguing about drying clothes inside causing damp. talk about arranging deck chairs on the titanic.
Btw, you can freeze your clothes instead of washing them if you like. Kills bacteria, more energy efficient I am told.

All parties should have eco incentives as part of their manifestoes then. Surely it is the right thing to do and sends out the message to one and all. They can differ on other things of course.

Agree

Also tbf have people noticed the reaction to the ‘cost of living crisis’?

Some of what’s needed will make life even more difficult

You'll struggle to find voters willing to vote for that

I agree. While I believe that co2 probably has an impact I think it’s all part of the earth’s patterns too.

I fully intend to live my life while caring for nature where possible. The idea that people would vote for a government that stopped them going on holiday is truly batshit.

That isn’t how democracy works.

UK doesn't have true democratic voting system anyway with FPTP does it?

So let’s have dictatorship instead? 👍🏻

• Airlines have trimmed costs for the passengers also, so even with the tax it is probably cheaper per kilometre to fly to say Malaga than it is to take a train from London to Edinburgh.

I don't think current air tax/charges put any travellers off TBH.*

Love how benign "trimmed costs" sounds..in reality the airlines have offset APD increase by, amongst other things, often screwing staff T&Cs, but I guess that's not your concern..

What should be worrying genuine environmentalists taking the wider view is that upping APD to the level the UK has done is often (and possibly is increasingly) generating two flights rather than one. Certainly a family travelling ex-UK by air, Long Haul, for any reason might be well advised from a financial POV to look at connecting via Europe or Scandinavia.

Two flights instead of one doesn't sound like a great idea for all sorts of reasons to me.

^^ Opps, for @Keykat ...

The other thing is re: flying and I don’t know the answer is 200 people on a plane actually worse than 200 people driving in 70 separate cars?

I know one person who refuses to fly and she’s just driven to Italy when there was a flight going anyway - would her extra weight on the flight really be worse than driving there?

Nearly there, nearly there, how many years of this crowd now anyway? 🤔

The average Chinese person emits less than the average UK citizen when offshored emissions are accounted for.