Is this classed as a ‘high earner’?

[Earnerlesr]

65k.

And if it’s not, what figure starts to be classed as a high earner?

But I think many of the people posting about that live in London and the South East where it is an average salary but where it wouldn't buy you even a studio flat without years of saving for a massive deposit.

It’s not that people on lower wages don’t believe that high earners exist

it is a bit. How many times do we have to read "only on MN do people earn..., meanwhile in the real world everybody survive on a monthly chicken" 🙄

It wouldn't be that difficult to google the likely salaries + bonuses of people around you, the price of properties, etc. But apparently it's easier to deny and pretend anyone pretending to earn a 6 figure salary is lying.

God forbid anyone earning a higher salary expects the real well off can afford a decent property, a couple of holidays and possibly a good school. If you can barely afford this or not even that, how can anyone calls you "Well off"?

Will you be my friend?

The problem is that salaries in this country are far too low and instead of having a go at politicians about this and insisting they do better, as the cost of living is out of control, people just snipe at each other and tell people they should be grateful for what they have - as this thread illustrates.

My salary is pretty good but if I worked in the USA or many European countries, it would be significantly higher, with a cheaper cost of living, too. We're being pissed on and told it's raining by the political class here.

It's a phrase you see on here so that anyone can use it, I earn 24k, I used to earn 19, in my eyes I'm a higher earner! Well it's true, I get more than I used to 😆

Yep its delusion and how privilege happens.

People who can't see how well off they are telling the many worse off than them that they (the rich few) are the 'normal' ones and we some how don't exist or on mumsnet we are the few 'poor' ones all running round like oliver twist orphans begging for 'more' at the food bank.

Moaning they can't afford to live because their 100k income has gone down to 75k and COL as mumsnet loves to say. How will they keep their 2 million pound house, their horses and kids in private school plus pay their cleaner and make their new range rover repayments. They making an effort though because they considered cutting back on Starbucks, Disney and Netflix and cutting the cleaner (who they pay £14 an hour so isn't making 75k per year) hours to half time. Clearly living hand to mouth with zero wiggle room on all these 'basic necessities'.

You can definitely buy a studio flat for £65k. Even in my area (z3 north london), it is listed at 275k and that is in a mansion block and would probably go for far less. Say if it goes for £250k, it is roughly 4 times salary. many people in the north who buy 200k houses may not earn that much more than 50k household income!

But most people in London who buy flats expect to buy 2 bed flats and that is on average £420k. And if you want a house in the home counties, it is around £350-500k plus a hefty season ticket on top and car running costs. And the flats are not that much cheaper than in London once you factor in the season ticket costs- a lot of flats are around the £300k mark which is quite a lot when you account for the fact that commuting costs can be as much as £80 a day. even if you are hybrid, it can really add up.

The median is a type of average, and it’s used for income as the mean is too affected by the very high earnings of a very small number of people. One person earning a million pounds a year drags the mathematical average right up. The median is the middle value, so 50% of people earn more and 50% of people earn less. It’s a better indication of the middle for this kind of distribution.

Everyone is affected by the cost of living increases but not everyone is in a crisis situation because of it.

But at the other end of the scale I think some people are ignorant or unaware how many people are on low salaries or nmw, like the ones who can't believe there are people in London earning less than 30k ...and they are not all students living with their parents...

I think the problem is that even on a high wage you can still struggle or not afford what seem like fairly average things (that previous generations might have afforded on more modest wages) ....and thus not feel that your wages are high, even if they are in the top 5%

Well they clearly do, but it's above average everywhere including London.

I think these threads now are just people taking the piss to be honest for the most part.

I reckon £1M. £300K is pretty ordinary really, loads of FTSE 100 directors earn that.

Seriously?

It is really striking that so many posters think that a person earning over £65k is an average salary when less than 10% of the working population earn more than this. At the same time, a person earning £65k would still not be able to afford a mortgage or their own without a substantial deposit in many parts of the country. They certainly couldn't lead a lavish lifestyle if they were paying nursery fees.

I think the words lavish and luxury are the problem. Most normal people in the real world aim for comfortable and secure. If/ when they get there they feel well off, and they are. Being well off is being able to comfortably afford your lifestyle and the things you want, it's a state of mind based on individual expectations. The less you want the less money you need.

@Greenberg2 You are right about the cost of living. Wages in the UK have declined in real terms over the last decade and the cost of living has increased substantially, particularly housing and utility costs.

But £65k is still a better than average salary in London. Many people in London are paid on the National Living Wage. The average salary in London is £42k. The problem for all of us - wherever we live in the UK - is that salaries wages minus tax minus essential outgoings are a lot less than the top line pre tax figure.

I consider anything over 100 k a high earner , anything from 40 k to that a average earner

Definitely not a high earner in my opinion, although it is more than I currently earn. Even 100k isn't particularly high these days.

I don’t think that’s entirely true.
My DH is also a white man working in the city (London) and he does earn just around 100k
He is not average though. Yes there some on higher, a few on lot higher but many many more on way lower.
His job involves working with and seeing peoples wages so he gets quite an insight across the board from assistants to partners. He also job hunts a fair bit so is in touch with what various city jobs are paying.

erm you can't afford a £2 million house on £200k salary. That is 10 times salary so impossible unless you have a big inheritance. If you are on £100k each in, you could be a doctor in the north or senior partner in a provincial law firm but more likely you are probably at VP level in a bank (non investment banking) or a young software developer. The latter could be remote, but the former would usually require you to live within commuting distance of London. A flat is £400k but a house can be £500-700k or even a million. If you need childcare, thats another £2k per child. And anything above £50k is taxed at 40% plus student loan (though most people would have paid it back by early or mid 30s on that kind of income). You can borrow 5 times income so theoretically you can afford a million pound house but it will still feel like a millstone particularly with childcare.

Thats why a £200k is a middling household income in London/SE. they are one of the last remnants of the middle class left. Everyone else is poor. But why should this be surprising. capitalism means that the majority of people will be poor with a few rich people and a small middle class population. Capitalism is the best system we have but its not very good at the same time.

I agree with many of the comments above. I earn a six figure salary (just) but I am in London and I am a lone parent. Thus means that I certainly don’t feel like a high earner.

But on the other side of delusion is this - of course people are going to get their backs up if you accuse them of being so ridiculous! How could someone on 100k afford a 2m house, really? Let alone all the other stuff. In fact 100k is about 65k after tax which is basically the entire fees for 2 kids at private school

100k is an excellent salary and I don't think anyone is claiming it isn't. But it does not buy anywhere near this kind of lifestyle

Earning six figures though still does put someone in a small minority. It doesn’t mean that they ‘don’t exist’ but it’s still an unusual and privileged position to be in, compared to most people in the country. If you earn that much though, you are more likely to live in an area and know other people who also earn similar or more, so it starts to feel normal and necessary. So earning six figures then doesn’t seem like a minority or unusual position.

Similarly if you earn a lot less than that, likely that you also have friends with a similar income level, lifestyle and expectations. So the idea you would need 100k + to achieve a basic standard of living can seem bizarre.

Moaning they can't afford to live because their 100k income has gone down to 75k and COL as mumsnet loves to say. How will they keep their 2 million pound house, their horses and kids in private school plus pay their cleaner and make their new range rover repayments. They making an effort though because they considered cutting back on Starbucks, Disney and Netflix and cutting the cleaner (who they pay £14 an hour so isn't making 75k per year) hours to half time. Clearly living hand to mouth with zero wiggle room on all these 'basic necessities'.

and here we go.

On which planet you think a 75k or 100k income can pay for a 2 million pound house, horse, private schools.. 😂

Even if it wasn't the amount before tax, you are seriously deluded

Most people who I know who live in London on normal salaries live in Croydon and the like. That's normal life in London and the SE, a quick check shows me house prices aren't much different to where I live in the midlands.

You are spot on. I think its so sad how creative jobs are brushed off too. So many I know are on temporary contracts so have little job security making it hard to make plans. We were lucky and bought the house we are living in 2002 though we would like more room we feel lucky that we have nearly finished paying our mortgage. I know a few people earning over 50k but over 100k is another level. The inequalities just seem to be widening.

But at the other end of the scale I think some people are ignorant or unaware how many people are on low salaries or nmw, like the ones who can't believe there are people in London earning less than 30k ...and they are not all students living with their parents...

People are aware, but of these 30k or less a year, how little do they pay in tax, and how much help are they entitled to?

There are council properties everywhere, but there's one street in particular that comes to mind, it's just near Paddington station, not one of the worst part of London by far. On the same road, a private property sell for millions, or is let for ridiculous amounts, but the council flat opposite is rented for next to nothing. They look similar, you wouldn't know which one is which just looking at them.

So ok someone on a low wage living there is not "well off", but they are not doing too badly are they? Meanwhile a higher salary has no chance to live anywhere near the city centre.

How much money do people actually have to play with?