To find most Brits bemusingly obedient?

[Torven]

Most, not all!

But most would queue themselves into an early grave if a perceived (not even actual) authority figure ordered them to.

Why do they obey the "you must scan your receipt before exiting the self service area" rule in supermarkets? No you don't, Sainsbury's isn't going to hold you hostage in a castle dungeon until you comply.

Another thread on here about "requiring evidence" if your kid is sick so they're "allowed" to be off school? All these folk scrabbling about taking photos of thermometers oh I HOPE THE HEAD THINKS THIS IS ENOUGH 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭. Tell the head to feck right off.

Most rules can just be ignored and if enough people ignore the stupid ones they'll disappear. You're making it worse for everyone by going along with them.

may have been trigger happy there. If so, i apologise.

Here's my apology. It's upthread.

Queuing isn't necessarily fair - first person there isn't necessarily most deserving

Maybe they're not, but I'm not sure how a general melee when (for example) a bus arrives helps the less deserving either - especially if they're disabled and get shoved

I have often seen people step aside for those more in need anyway. I do and so do many others

Probably not the op though. She’s probably pushing everyone to get to front. Pesky people.

Black woman here, call me paranoid but I always print my receipt just to be safe.

Right. Stop at the doors if the alarm goes off, show my receipt to a shop worker at M&S with the Scan, Bag, and Pay, have bags of only a certain size, keeping items that don’t come with a receipt in a backpack fully zipped up and not reaching for anything inside until I’ve gotten a good distance away from the shop and then bagging my items accordingly.

Societies that don’t queue are so stressful and inefficient.

To clarify not generally but where queuing would be an option.

I'd agree there tbh. I need an oul queue. But with 'soundness', like, if someone asked to go ahead for whatever reason and i wasn't in a particular rush, i'd say of course, go ahead. Bit without the manners bit, i'd be all sharp elbows 😂

I still stick to my observation that Brits are not particularly obedient or rule-loving as such, but we HATE to draw attention to ourselves, as a rule. (Obviously individuals can be an exception!)

So a lot of what OP is citing as "obedience" is actually just avoiding standing out.

If following a rule will result in not standing out, then people will generally be obedient. If breaking the expected rule will bring unwanted attention to the person, then people are even more likely to stick to it. This is probably why the two things look the same, because the British "don't gain unwanted attention" culture is used in the enforcement of rules - this is possibly why we have so much CCTV compared with other places, because the CCTV is a silent indicator of "someone might come and call you out for this later".

If people will not notice or care, then people will be perfectly happy to break rules (or not) based on what suits them at the time. Such as, for example, crossing the road against a red light if it's safe to do so, parking illegally, dropping litter when nobody is looking, calling in sick to work when not actually sick, bringing your own sweets into the cinema, whatever.

It would be interesting to see how British people respond when there is a stated rule that would cause this to be broken, ie, the rule is to alert a staff member in XYZ situation, but it's possible to just ignore this and not notify anybody, and nobody is likely to come and find them later and ask why they did not do this.

I bet the majority of British people would slink away and pretend they were never in the situation in the first place or pretend that they had not noticed, in order to avoid having to attract unwanted attention, rather than follow the rule.

You can see this illustrated quite clearly in the example of somebody being disappointed when they have bought a train ticket but neither station they used had barriers and no conductor was on the train. This disappointment would simply never occur to a German, German trains have no barriers and there are very rarely ticket checks on normal public transport like trams/buses. The vast majority of people buy a ticket every single journey and do not consider it a waste if it does not get checked. I have probably been checked around 1-2% of the journeys I have made on local public transport in Germany.

No only a very rude an entitled person who thinks they are more deserving would try and ignore a queue.

I'm with you demoniccavemagnet I'm happy to call out queue jumpers. Never had one not back down when confronted.

Societal rules are there for the benefit of everyone. Without them there would be anarchy and people like the OP with their I'm all right jack attitude would happily trample all over everyone else.

You see it more and more, checking in at Heathrow recently and I watched a person walk past the barriered queue and join right at the front by squeezing in through a gap. They were spotted by the check in staff and loudly and unceremoniously ejected.

Frankly whilst Britain may have its faults, people having manners is not one of them. Sadly though the OP (clearly on a wind up) hasn't noticed, people are observing British social norms less and less. It's not unusual to have journeys on public transport interrupted by drunk boorish people, or people who haven't worked out that they should be using headphones.

Oh this might be news to you OP, in Germany Sunday is classed as a quiet day. Goodness how obedient German people must be to adhere to such a thing! Why don't they just all start making a noise? I shall tell you why, because it is for the benefit of everyone.

Perhaps you'll be starting a thread about Germans next? Probably not eh?

Why don't you take your xenophobic stereotypes and toddle off elsewhere dear?

So funny how this thread has backfired on the OP!

I agree excessive obedience is bad and testing the rules is worthwhile in some cases - but cases where the rules are excessive or harmful. Queuing is an example of where it should be followed I think because by not doing so you're harming others who have been waiting patiently. Who are we to decide we should get to go first? Letting someone with mobility issues or something go ahead, fine, but it should be the choice of those ahead in the queue to allow the person. I'd hope most people would have enough manners to follow this approach.

Also re Sainsburys barriers surely rather than climbing over you just stop shopping there and tell them why. Reduced customers will be much more effective than barrier hopping...

So OP are you are parent? Have you actually told a teacher etc "to feck right off?" Do you consider what sort of role model that would make you? There are systems in schools that parents can appeal against, and process can be followed, for what parents might disagree with. You would hopefully balance your wish to go on holiday against your child's educational attainment. Verbal abuse is not tolerated and it cod potentially mean your child could be excluded for your behaviour. Can you understand that you might need to consider your child (and the fact they may be potentially happy at a particular school) before your own needs to not follow rules? Equally, you could consider home education or private education if affordable. So there would be options open to you, I. Not suggesting anything is perfect but at least in principle that is how a civilised society operates.

Nèin!

If we're talking about queuing in general, how many people have been in a queue when it's been moved to another till, and the people at the back get to the front of the new queue ?

(To be fair I was once moved in a queue like that, and the till manager made sure the order was kept.

Round here, most people would insist on the queue order being kept and would wave those who were ahead in front of them.

Though with a baby people often offer for me to go in front of them. I've only taken them up on this (and been very, very grateful) a couple of times in full-on meltdown scenarios. But then I figure I'm doing everyone a favour to exit as quickly as possible in those situations 😂.

The most awful example of rule-breaking I've ever seen (and exactly why we need rules and social codes) was a man trying to get on a crowded tube train who wheeled a woman in a wheelchair off so he could fit on. I was standing on the platform and everyone around was so gobsmacked... it took a few moments for all of us, the lady in the wheelchair included, to process that this had actually happened.

I would welcome the 'party' rules, but the government would take the 'putting my washing out on the line' rules out of my cold, dead hands!

I've lived in Germany for ten years and never come across any rule about hanging washing out.

We couldn't handle out washing or do noisy housework/DIY work on a Sunday in Germany.

If people don't pay for their shopping or train fairs then the companies have less money so things get worse in terms of price or service. If your child doesn't go to school they are less likely to get qualifications and lose life opportunities .British people expect their rules to be sensible and proportionate. The covid rules were much less Draconian than many places here which was why there was little dissent. The clever portrayal of the EU rules being disproportionate was a reason for people voting brexit

Sorry about the accidental happy birthday very disproportionate

I've just been in France where everyone in the local Monoprix queued up obediently to scan their receipts at the exit barrier.

I mean the French had to fill out a fucking form to leave their houses during covid, I suspect if that was introduced in the UK there would be plenty of forms with dicks drawn on them.

Social norms are a strong thing and queueing in the UK is a very well embedded social norm. These often work better than enforcement.

When the indoor smoking ban was introduced there was a lot of anxiety amongst local authorites about how they would be able to enforce it. What actually happened is it is self enforcing. It has quickly became a strong social norm that you do not smoke indoors. I was on a train recently where a drunk guy lit up, very quickly several passengers strongly admonished him and made him put the cigarette out.

When the indoor smoking ban was introduced there was a lot of anxiety amongst local authorites about how they would be able to enforce it. What actually happened is it is self enforcing. It has quickly became a strong social norm that you do not smoke indoors. I was on a train recently where a drunk guy lit up, very quickly several passengers strongly admonished him and made him put the cigarette out.

Yet, weirdly, the smoking ban is the one law we could dump now we're out of the EU. Why aren't people clamouring for that sovereignty ?

I would hazard because most people, even smokers, support the ban.

Oh quite. Entirely.

It's just amusing since at the time it was the End Of The World As We Know It and now something that could be repealed with a single line of a Ministers pen.

I'm a smoker so didn't 'support' the ban as such, but i certainly didn't object. Just got on with it. It made sense, and it was fair so there was no arguing with it.