Page 25 | What is going on with British kids?

FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight · 2023-07-13T18:41:55+00:00

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens. Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient. Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off. What is going on???

Goldbar · 14/07/2023 10:19

Sitting still comes easily to some children. Others are literally fizzing with energy the whole time.

"Good parenting" looks very different depending on the type of child you have.

Nottodays8tan · 14/07/2023 10:23

@Foxesandsquirrels yeah I understand that completely. I think I’m just feeling triggered because pre diagnosis I was especially made to feel like it was all in my head and/or a result of my parenting if you know what I mean. I have impeccably behaved NT children but my eldest is ND so being a first time parent I definitely felt judged by his behaviour (and still do). But I agree with what you’re saying. I definitely wouldn’t be one to ever question anyone’s diagnosis though 😬

Nottodays8tan · 14/07/2023 10:24

@Goldbar yes exactly!

JamSandle · 14/07/2023 10:25

A lot of British parents are softies and struggle with the discipline aspect of parenting.

wholivesondrurylane · 14/07/2023 10:25

Goldbar · 14/07/2023 10:19

Sitting still comes easily to some children. Others are literally fizzing with energy the whole time.

"Good parenting" looks very different depending on the type of child you have.

Oh please
children fizzing with energy can have very good manners. It's ridiculous to pretend there's some superiority because someone does not behave. They pain in the neck are not more creative, more energetic, more intelligent 😂

You can see it at every child's party where they all bouncing around everywhere. At the end, some kids just grab the party bag and run, sometimes stuffing their face with the cake, meanwhile others are stopped by their parent, told to go and say thank you and goodbye.
No point for guessing which ones had fairly decent table manners and which ones didn't. Literally 100% down to the parent.

Nottodays8tan · 14/07/2023 10:30

@Buttons232 yea I completely agree with what you’ve said within an education setting, far more understanding and less judgement thankfully but also completely can see how people would also misuse a “pending” diagnosis to excuse behaviour which isn’t a consequence of an actual condition …I’m certainly glad it’s not my job to question it and I commend all teachers 🩵

Iolani · 14/07/2023 10:38

RoseBucket · 14/07/2023 07:31

This will get me shot down but I always was strict at mealtimes, no screens and no running around until after meals. I also tried to avoid restaurants with children’s play areas within especially the soft play type pubs because I always thought they were feral and didn’t teach how to behave in a restaurant/meal times.

Not shooting you down here @RoseBucket
we were the same and many other parents on here were too.
Its called setting boundaries and parenting

Iolani · 14/07/2023 10:43

OMG12 · 14/07/2023 08:35

Apparently it doesn’t stop them throwing petrol bombs at police a few years down the line though. Personally I’d rather a few peas came my way than bricks riots are much more regular in France. Guess we need to allow for cultural differences though.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/12/02/france-mulls-state-of-emergency-after-paris-riots-wont-change-policy.html

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So the British never riot?

Foxesandsquirrels · 14/07/2023 10:45

@Nottodays8tan That must've been really hard with it being your first. I'm sorry. People can be cruel and it feels like you've done something wrong, everyone else seems to find it so easy.

Yes, I maybe worded that wrong. I don't want to dismiss anyone's diagnosis but I do find even professionals are now jumping onto a diagnosis before first exploring other causes. The net seems to be getting cast wider and wider to meet diagnosis and this will do no favours to the kids on the more severe ends of these spectrums as services are going to be even more overwhelmed. ADHD and autism in particular I find. So much can be done for the child in the home and a lot can be achieved with professionals supporting and working with the family, esp if there's early intervention. There's just no scope for that in the NHS and very few can afford it privately. This idea that you get the diagnosis and off you go, fuels this attitude you hear so often in the playground 'oh it's just his ADHD oh it's just his this and that'. No post diagnostic support is messing kids and parents up. Parenting an ND child is so different to a NT one and being strict just won't work. It'll destroy you and the child.
The UK isn't very child friendly too. Whilst it's easy to say that parenting isn't very good at the moment, and I agree with this, where are people meant to learn this from? There's no support.

Buttons232 · 14/07/2023 10:47

Those saying it’s down to practice and the culture of sitting down for meals, I think that’s partially true but not the whole story. I think french discipline, which I don’t particularly agree with, is probably more significant here. Food is very important to my DH, and mealtimes together have always been none negotiable. We sit and eat a none processed, home cooked meal at the table every night and talk to each other as a family. It’s not always early but it always happens, often at the expense of early bedtimes. This is entirely to DH’s credit . If it was me, with my dislike of cooking, we’d live off toast and ready meals!

Two of my kids are teens now and are great in restaurants, as they should be at their age! The six year old is still a bloody nightmare at times and my oldest was too as a younger child. They’ve all had plenty of practice but I wouldn’t say they were exemplary. I’ve had a mixture of complements and death stares over the years and there are times when phones, colouring books, pencils etc have been an absolute bloody godsend. I won’t apologise for that. I think you’ve got to play the long game and believe that if you’re modelling the right behaviour they’ll get there eventually, although it’s a long haul ! It’s worth noting too that some kids are definitely happier to sit, sedately. Two of mine are very high energy and the third will just sit for hours. No difference in parenting at all. Interestingly the sedate one is the one I worry about more in terms of health, as the other two direct all their energy into sports when they’re not jumping around and refusing to sit still at the dinner table !

Nottodays8tan · 14/07/2023 10:53

Foxesandsquirrels · 14/07/2023 10:45

@Nottodays8tan That must've been really hard with it being your first. I'm sorry. People can be cruel and it feels like you've done something wrong, everyone else seems to find it so easy.

Yes, I maybe worded that wrong. I don't want to dismiss anyone's diagnosis but I do find even professionals are now jumping onto a diagnosis before first exploring other causes. The net seems to be getting cast wider and wider to meet diagnosis and this will do no favours to the kids on the more severe ends of these spectrums as services are going to be even more overwhelmed. ADHD and autism in particular I find. So much can be done for the child in the home and a lot can be achieved with professionals supporting and working with the family, esp if there's early intervention. There's just no scope for that in the NHS and very few can afford it privately. This idea that you get the diagnosis and off you go, fuels this attitude you hear so often in the playground 'oh it's just his ADHD oh it's just his this and that'. No post diagnostic support is messing kids and parents up. Parenting an ND child is so different to a NT one and being strict just won't work. It'll destroy you and the child.
The UK isn't very child friendly too. Whilst it's easy to say that parenting isn't very good at the moment, and I agree with this, where are people meant to learn this from? There's no support.

I completely agree with everything you’ve said

Foxesandsquirrels · 14/07/2023 11:08

Nottodays8tan · 14/07/2023 10:53

I completely agree with everything you’ve said

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Sorry we got off on the wrong foot! Wishing you and your children the very best. Hope you and your kids get the right support.

Pacific101 · 14/07/2023 11:15

I don't want to dismiss anyone's diagnosis

And yet you’re still doing it. 🙄

Foxesandsquirrels · 14/07/2023 11:15

Pacific101 · 14/07/2023 11:15

I don't want to dismiss anyone's diagnosis

And yet you’re still doing it. 🙄

I'm really not. If you're going to take one line of a long post out of context than just don't bother quoting me at all.

Sweetashunni · 14/07/2023 11:18

I agree with Foxes. It seems like people just don’t want to talk about kids behaviour because it’s a bit embarrassing and touches a nerve for them, so they make it an issue of special needs to shut the conversation down. When the vast majority of kids don’t have special needs and they’re not the kids we are talking about anyway

Pacific101 · 14/07/2023 11:22

I'm really not. If you're going to take one line of a long post out of context than just don't bother quoting me at all.

I’ve read all your posts. Saying I’m not being dismissive BUT <insert various dismiss commentS> really does work. it’s like I’m not racism but...blah blah blah..... Oh and I have a black friend.

Mumsnet is full of people like you.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 14/07/2023 11:22

ND figures from the Autistic Girls Network. 1 in 22 in NI.
As to the poster who said French kids stay up late. Do they get up late too? Do French schools start later than British schools?

Both my Dc were falling asleep by 7.00 pm. They were too tired to stay up later. Up at 7 or so to start school at 8.30. If they’d gone to bed at 10 they’d have been too tired long term.

SunnyEgg · 14/07/2023 11:23

Sweetashunni · 14/07/2023 11:18

I agree with Foxes. It seems like people just don’t want to talk about kids behaviour because it’s a bit embarrassing and touches a nerve for them, so they make it an issue of special needs to shut the conversation down. When the vast majority of kids don’t have special needs and they’re not the kids we are talking about anyway

So people are making SN up?

Bit ableist that

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 14/07/2023 11:23

Photo

Goldbar · 14/07/2023 11:24

wholivesondrurylane · 14/07/2023 10:25

Oh please
children fizzing with energy can have very good manners. It's ridiculous to pretend there's some superiority because someone does not behave. They pain in the neck are not more creative, more energetic, more intelligent 😂

You can see it at every child's party where they all bouncing around everywhere. At the end, some kids just grab the party bag and run, sometimes stuffing their face with the cake, meanwhile others are stopped by their parent, told to go and say thank you and goodbye.
No point for guessing which ones had fairly decent table manners and which ones didn't. Literally 100% down to the parent.

Show quote history

If you can't see that some parents are constantly "on it" and on top of their child, and yet child is still a bit of a nightmare, whereas others can largely ignore their child and know that they won't cause any problems, then I can.

There is good parenting and bad parenting, yes, but some kids are just easier than others and it's silly to pretend otherwise.

adviceneeded1990 · 14/07/2023 11:26

Nottodays8tan · 14/07/2023 09:12

@Foxesandsquirrels I appreciate that. I didn’t know that was really a thing but perhaps isn’t so much where I live, I do remember wanting a private diagnosis assessment when I first had concerns because the waiting list was so far in sight and I just wanted answers from someone who knew what they were talking about and I desperately wanted answers now but if that’s being misused then that’s just gross. I did wonder why services don’t recognise private diagnosis so if this is why then that’s really saddening however for some it probably is the ability to fund the desperation for answers also.

And yes, agreed! 🙂

It’s so sad but I confirm that working in schools we see this a lot. A lot of our services where I live don’t recognise private diagnosis either because a lot of private practitioners would diagnose my cat if I paid them enough.

ChasingMusic · 14/07/2023 11:30

I’ve read all your posts. Saying I’m not being dismissive BUT <insert various dismiss commentS> really does work. it’s like I’m not racism but...blah blah blah..... Oh and I have a black friend.

Mumsnet is full of people like you.

Agree completely @Pacific101

Foxesandsquirrels · 14/07/2023 11:32

Pacific101 · 14/07/2023 11:22

I'm really not. If you're going to take one line of a long post out of context than just don't bother quoting me at all.

I’ve read all your posts. Saying I’m not being dismissive BUT <insert various dismiss commentS> really does work. it’s like I’m not racism but...blah blah blah..... Oh and I have a black friend.

Mumsnet is full of people like you.

I don't get notified you've replied to me unless you @ me. I'm happy to have a constructive conversation and have done so with multiple other people on this post. You're not doing that though. If you feel Mumsnet is full of people like this, than maybe it's best you find a site with people who are more in line with your thinking, or you try to have a discussion rather than simply shutting down a conversation with a one line about how awful I am.

Sweetashunni · 14/07/2023 11:33

Goldbar · 14/07/2023 11:24

If you can't see that some parents are constantly "on it" and on top of their child, and yet child is still a bit of a nightmare, whereas others can largely ignore their child and know that they won't cause any problems, then I can.

There is good parenting and bad parenting, yes, but some kids are just easier than others and it's silly to pretend otherwise.

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But a ‘difficult child’ is no reason to just plonk them on a tablet and give up is it

PoshPineapple · 14/07/2023 11:33

@Purpleolive8

My children can sit through a meal in a restaurant 🤷‍♀️ we’ve never allowed them screens in restaurants, have family dinners at the table at home etc..
But also have realistic expectations, have a card game ready just in case, talk to them so they’re engaged at the table, keep things fun. I loved family meals at restaurants when I was a kid and I want my kids to feel the same.

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