What is going on with British kids?

[FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight]

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

As someone said above, it is a little bit of pot luck with your child. My child born same time as neighbours child. Same type of upbringing, mine crazy climbing and dancing on tables, theirs just so calm and sits still and does what is expected.

I hate to mention this, but sitting at a table is kind of western hemisphere invnetion. Lots of peoples in the world don't sit on chairs, squat on floor and eat differentlly. Kind of weird that it is so enforced in the west.

But then people used to dress chair legs in france as they thought it was indecent.

this thread is so fast paced I'm going to bed now. Probably having a late night buttie sans table and waking up to no sleepy teenager who I try to avoid in the kitchen anyway.

Catch up later...

Oh gosh I've been considering doing a French Eurocamp with my physically disabled dd who also has a bit of a learning disability. This thread has put me right off. So people are openly rude to disabled children?! My dd is still in a pushchair as she can't walk long distances. I usually find people really helpful (holding doors etc) is this not generally how it is in France?

My dd doesn't have the best tolerance for meals at the table either but then I was raised by an American mother and I have to say she couldn't care less if we sat and ate properly at the table which was a SCANDAL to my British grandmother in the 80s 😂.

To be fair it probably proves what a Iot of people are saying it is how you're brought up. I couldn't give less of a monkeys about being round a table conversing politely while I eat every meal. That sounds unnecessarily formal to me. I do do it, I eat out often and enjoy it. I'm perfectly well mannered and polite not feral. But day to day I prefer eating informally e.g. at a bbq or (gasp) on the sofa.

I think I may have to save more and go to America on holiday instead. France sounds like it's not ready for the likes of me 😂.

isn't that why we are all on MN? 😂

Are you telling me that "Flushed With Pride" was incorrect about the inventor the cistern toilet being British? Or were the greek precursors not cistern-based?

I find French kids do sit for meals, other European kids too, but they are feral when playing.
what I notice too is how fat British kids are to European teens. last holiday there was a bunch of German teens, all athletic looking, then some flabby uk kids sat with their parents all holiday stuffing their faces.

No it wasn't the French. They were too busy coming up with their own innovations like pastuerisation, the metric system, cinematography, stethoscopes, canned food, braille, catalytic convertors and rechargeable batteries. Obedient kids do grow into creative inventive adults.

Smacking teaches the child to fear and distrust the parent. The child is only behaving out of fear of violence, not through a desire to do the right thing. Hence acting up when dad isn't there.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia what in particular do you think are the strengths of the UK systems of education v the French one?

You only have to look at schools here and how out of control children here. Everything is excused as some 'issue' and no accountability from parents for bad behaviour.

My DH is French, and also has ADHD.

During his (1980s) childhood:

• He was referred to a psychiatrist as he couldn’t sit still, they recommended residential hospital. He was 6.
• The teachers at his school called his mum in to tell her that they knew she was a single mother and that was why her son was failing at school
• A teacher broke his nose with a textbook
• He was made to sit at the dinner table and eat every item from a very young age, with physical punishment used to enforce this
• He was excluded from multiple schools because he couldn’t concentrate
• School meals were three courses with salads. Even in light of the above, he is disgusted with English school meals.

He still eats everything put in front of him whether he likes it or not; but he is traumatised by his time at school. The French are better at some things, the British at others. Neither of us wanted to bring the kids up in France, though…

Of course there’s ND kids in France but as mentioned far less tolerance of them so more likely to stay at home.

Also a much higher number of ND kids are sent off to institutions.

Children? What about the rest of it? Depression, anxiety, happiness indexes?

I don’t want to derail the thread but yeah!!! Definitely super unusual to be breastfeeding at 2 in France!! Like, you might actually get judgemental looks. It’s just ‘not done’ it seems

I'm European, but not French. Live in UK.

I'm always gobsmacked with threads like these. Just where do (some) of you see all these horrid screechy little British brats?

Not going to lie, some British parenting decisions seem very odd to me, as an outsider. But everyone is entitled to parent however they see fit and it's hardly my business.

However, I completely disagree that British kids are horrible. I personally find them really lovely on the whole. Yep, they can be um...more animated (?) sometimes than kids from my country, but I don't see it as a bad thing, just different.

My daughter (10) goes to school here and has friends outside the school too. They are lovely kids, outspoken, polite, friendly. I honestly couldn't say anything bad about them.

Whingy little kids in public? So what. They're little. They might be tired, hungry, thirsty, bored. Or maybe it's just not their day. Shit happens. If grown-ass 'responsible' adults can sometimes lose it in public, they why do we expect little kids to be 'with it' at all times?

As for two hour meals.. I'm a 35 year old adult and I wouldn't want to sit through it. I can if I really need to, naturally. But do not enjoy it. It's boring. And colouring book for a small child on the table? What's the issue?

Now I don't know about the French, but I can tell you what kind of parenting makes kids to be mini-adults (best behaved) in my country. The answer is: DRACONIAN. Trust me, you don't want this.

Kids are expected to behave at all times, be seen and not heard. If they misbehave - they are punished. In various ways: shouting, death stares, general terror, physical punishments in some families. In my country, at least, there is no magical 'talking with your kids at all times, explaining them manners ad nauseam, leading by example, yadda yadda'. Sure, some families do it, but usually it's much simpler: misbehave and you're punished. You're scared of your parents, so you behave. That's it, that's the whole secret.

However, one thing I agree with. From 'back home'. Kids are not pandered to. From little age, it's explained and showed to them, that they're not the center of the universe and not the center of the family. They're not more important than other members of the family, all are equal. No one expects adults sitting and playing/occupying/entertaining kids at all times. It's fine for them to be bored sometimes, or to play alone/occupy themselves. Within reason, obvs. Parents can be tired, ill, or just not in the mood at that very moment, and that's normal and fine. Days out are not centered around the kids at all times, fun things are done 'in turns', and when it's adult's 'turn' - children are expected to behave. Etc, like that.

It's explained, that it's normal and fine to be disappointed (sometimes), sad, bored and that things doesn't always go your way, even when you're a child.

Oh, and the 'village' thing mentioned up thread. Yes, not only children, but parents too will be bollocked by all and sundry if aforementioned child is acting inappropriately in public.

Sorry for the length :)

The Germans invented the suffragettes? (Runs away before all hell lets loose)

@Jojobees - not euro camp but I would 100% recommend where we went- run by lovely people and have adapted chalets etc.

Excavations at Knossos found flushing toilets.
Not an overhead cistern as the water source was serving a line of communal toilets. The water was stored overhead ( they believe on the floor above ) and flushed through to the pans to clean.

My kids were born and raised in France. I always had pens in my bag. No screens though.

No tolerance of kids ruining meals and kids go out to restaurants etc from tiny. We don't do kids meals and adult meals. Everyone eats at a table together.

Mine are now teens. We always found British kids a bit wild and loud.

I see plenty of absolutely lovely well behaved UK kids sitting eating dinner with their families without screens where I live.

Just to balance this out, I'm a history teacher and have been running trips to WWI battlefields for nearly 15 years. The French kids are almost without exception more poorly behaved. Running around, shouting, jumping over monuments etc.

@Usernamenotavailabletryanother your poor DH is still to this day traumatised by his childhood. I don't really think it says much about UK v FRA systems in 2023 but sincerely wishing him and you all the very best. It's so grim that much of what was 'normal' when we were children is now - too late for us - rightly recognised as being so abusive.

Lol. I’ll take that as a yes then

I have observed at children's parties that a good 10-20% of kids fix themselves firmly at the party tea table and aren't particularly interested in tormenting the entertainer, going ten rounds with the bouncy castle or walloping their peers with balloon swords. They are however delightful to chat to, on the whole. If I could choose, I would take one of these children out to a restaurant in the place of my DC.

Children grow into adults, the Situation in France is clearly more detrimental overall to mental health - I would suggest the attitude to children is probably where a lot of it starts