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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What is going on with British kids?

1000 replies

FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight · 13/07/2023 19:41

On holiday in France. An upmarket holiday camp and we are the only British family here. It was recommended by a French friend and I didn't realise it only has French families on holiday

Dinner is set 3 course dinner. My kids are 5 and 3. My older boy has ADHD we think (referred by school), our younger one doesn't as far as we know. Both kids are trying their hardest at dinner. There is v loud music playing and the pool party bit is still open. They run off after every course for a dance. Older one tries to stand up sometimes. We have colouring in books etc. Really they're fine. At restaurants and pubs they are totally average in terms of being able to sit at the table. No screens.

Not a single French kid has done anything wrong. No screens or even colouring. They might not all be talking to their parents but every single one is sitting through the whole 90 min dinner and waiting to dance at the end. So patient.

Do no French kids have ADHD or ND? Or even just kid like and cheeky? I have always tried my best with dinner times but these kids aren't even considering running off.

What is going on???

OP posts:
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PoshPineapple · 13/07/2023 21:36

I grew up in Mallorca, from the age of 1 to 11 (40 odd years ago). We didn't behave when out to dinner or at an event with our parents, we just 'were'. Dinner was (still is), the main event of the day for many in Spain, and in the summer months, mealtimes are often shared with extended family and friends, with socialising often taking place before and well beyond the actual meal. I firmly believe that as kids, we generally behaved because if we didn't, it wasn't just your own two parents you had to worry about, a stern ticking off could, and would, come from any local resident who saw fit to ensure you grew up with some manners and consideration of those around you. I had so many 'uncles' and 'aunties' in our local town - and being surrounded so much by so many people, being part of big groups of people was the norm and kids didn't appear to suffer from the same levels of near-hysteria that our UK based counterparts appear to in the local Hungry Horses!

Also, and I'm sure this plays a bigger factor than we already know, it's worth considering that European children, particularly around the med countries, generally aren't subjected to half as much processed food and additives etc. as our population consumes......

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 13/07/2023 21:36

THisbackwithavengeance · 13/07/2023 21:16

This thread is unbearable in its smugness.

Your kids sound fine, OP. I wouldn't have even cared if they'd had their iPads. You were on holiday not entrants in a parenting competition. So what if they got up and danced. They had a good time.

God yeah!

Like a competition to see who can be the most stuck up and French.

Id love to let a few toddlers loose on the this thread with IPads complete with Milky Bar yoghurts. Throwing a few wet wipes and crap around.

Peacoffee · 13/07/2023 21:36

@mellicauli honestly if a 3 year old dancing at a family meal mortifies you I really think you need to lighten up.

EffortlessDesmond · 13/07/2023 21:37

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia there is a difference between co-erced into behaving and being brought up to behave well and learning to enjoy the harmany that results.

MissyB1 · 13/07/2023 21:37

Callyem · 13/07/2023 19:46

I'm going to say it. We have lower expectations and don't enforce boundaries. I'm not commenting on my personal feelings towards enforcing said boundaries or whether or not I feel it is worthwhile, but if we did as standard, our children would also sit through a meal.

I’m glad you said it - and I agree.

3AndStopping · 13/07/2023 21:38

@Itdjgsurchg oh you sound so perfect, please teach the rest of peasants who are feeding our children pizza and instant noodles whilst working with our spare hand! Take us to utopia with you!

mellicauli · 13/07/2023 21:38

@Peacoffee This was a very formal family meal at the home of elderly relatives. Par for the course at home.

meddysam · 13/07/2023 21:39

and big difference around culture of mealtimes, working hours are shorter etc.

changeme4this · 13/07/2023 21:39

AffIt · 13/07/2023 20:00

You know the 'it takes a village' thing that MNers bang on about endlessly?

In my experience, having lived in France, Spain, Italy and East / South East Asia, other nationalities take this quite seriously, BUT it includes the village giving badly-behaved children a bollocking when necessary, which would absolutely not fly with most British parents.

They're fine with 'the village' fawning or doing the grunt work, but heaven forbid an unrelated adult tells a kid to cut that shit out.

As a result, most non-British European and Asian kids are more aware of how to behave in public, because the public will literally tell them how to behave.

Absolutely 100%

bellac11 · 13/07/2023 21:39

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 21:30

What happened there is that @bellac11 talked utter shite. ND children are often (arguably always) traumatised by trying to exist as ND in a NT world. The failure of the NT world to accommodate us causes the trauma. The trauma does not cause the ND. There wouldn't be babies and toddlers diagnosed as autistic if trauma cause ND.

Im not sure if you deliberately misunderstood what I said.

I havent said that trauma 'causes' ND anywhere

I said initially that there is a growing recognition, that some diagnoses given may be misdiagnoses because of the overlap of ND presentation and trauma responses.

I made the point, in response to someone saying that ND is genetic, that in terms of those families where trauma may be present, that its often present throughout the generations, therefore for some children whose presentation is borne out of trauma rather than ND, the very same presentation can also be there for their parent, and back again to the grandparent and so on.

One day there will be a specific test for ND and it will be much clearer to determine, but until then, diagnosis is based on observation,, patterns of behaviour and a history given by the parent and other professionals.

mrwalkensir · 13/07/2023 21:40

Cherryana - with bread it might be that "good" bread is allowed to go through the rising etc processes more slowly, and with less additives. One friend said that she's learnt to avoid "bread in a bag". The usual French baguette will have risen slowly. Maybe worth seeing how making your own goes?

HRTQueen · 13/07/2023 21:40

I think we tend to be more child centred than some cultures

I’m not sure it’s always better sometimes I have caught myself negotiating with ds and thought wtf am I doing

I have found since he has become a teenager I have done this less my tolerance for nonsense has lowered (think that’s hormones)

tobee · 13/07/2023 21:40

Why do French people riot (2023) differently to the way British people riot (2011)?

Why did the French have a revolution and kick out the monarchy (almost) for good? Why did we have a civil war, throw out the monarch and then bring them back a few years later?

Why do they have a different legal system?

Why do French people go on strike in a different way to us?

Why do they speak a whole different language to us when the countries are, what 22 miles apart, at the closest?

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 21:40

@mellicauli Do you know any adults who have difficult sitting down through a meal? No, me neither.

Hi, I do.

Peacoffee · 13/07/2023 21:40

mellicauli · 13/07/2023 21:38

@Peacoffee This was a very formal family meal at the home of elderly relatives. Par for the course at home.

Is there something about being elderly that means you’re offended by a 3 year old dancing?

painfullegos · 13/07/2023 21:42

There's loads of children with sensory issues or nd but there are some countries where these kids are never taken to restaurants which one of them is France. You are frowned and stared at. In some countries you will get criticised for using reins for safet or using a pushchair while on holiday by random people you encounter. The parents of kids who won't sit still in restaurants due to sensory issues or nd are at home. In most countries normal birth until your new born is traumatised in your womb doesn't happen, birth injuries are less.

FirstTimeNameChanger · 13/07/2023 21:42

FrenchAreDoingSomethingRight · 13/07/2023 21:30

For all those saying about engaging in conversation..we do talk to our kids but also they're v young so we aren't going to chatting for hours.

The French families round me aren't all talking to their kids. They're talking to the other adults and the kids are staring at the sky or possibly each other. The kids aren't all loving a wonderful family dinner. They just know not to get up until it's over.

Its my pet peeve people talking about expectations without explaining what that actually means. Or saying we just told our kids to behave. What do you think the rest of us are doing?

See, to me leaving your kid to stare blankly into space for 3 courses is not a great parent setting clear boundaries blah blah blah. Its teaching your kid to shut up because they matter less than what is going on around them. There is of course a time to learn that, maybe queuing at a reception desk or something, but not at a family meal.

For me, expectations at the dinner table are fairly basic. Try everything on your plate. Be polite even if you don't like the food. Don't discuss other people's food choices, and don't take food from other people's plates. Engage in conversation - this includes being quiet sometimes and waiting your turn. Please and thank you, chew with your mouth closed, use cutlery and napkins. Stay seated until told you can get down. Indoor voices.

Basically, don't ruin it for other people. It sounds like your kids weren't, so all good 👍

Stopsnowing · 13/07/2023 21:43

The French sit down for proper meals! Screens are used too much here. Went out for a meal with friends and their sons all around 11. As soon as we sat down one of them got his device out which really killed the mood and was frankly antisocial but his mum just beamed saying he was tired.

Crushed23 · 13/07/2023 21:44

LonginesPrime · 13/07/2023 21:02

You think most English people don't use cutlery?

Gold. 😂

Zanatdy · 13/07/2023 21:45

I have a French friend and her daughter has been able to sit through long meals without screens etc from a very young age. I guess they just did it a lot more, we didn’t eat out much so little practice. All you see now is kids watching screens, I guess if that gives the parent a break to eat then fine, but I bet European kids don’t need screens

3AndStopping · 13/07/2023 21:45

@LonginesPrime
You think most English people don't use cutlery?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

GreenShadyMeadow · 13/07/2023 21:45

My children when old enough, have to sit and be quiet, if they did make a noise as babies, my husband would take them out so as not to disturb other people.
My children sit quietly at the table, or I would tell them too, and if they didn’t we would have left.

As my children are older, we’ve been out for a very rare treat of a breakfast, where we’ve had to endure two set of grandparents loudly sing nursery rhymes to a toddler, while we were trying to eat

We’ve seen parents in a family style pub bring out a potty to a table, instead of taking a child away . We left there.

Ive been out with a Mum who let her four year old demolish a pepper grinder and spill the pepper everywhere, before the owner took it off the Mother.

I don’t think screens are the issue, I think parents are. They don’t tell their children to behave and sit still, or be quiet. And they don’t consider anyone else either.

I can’t remember how many parents have told me that their children don’t eat well, but have given them hand fulls of chocolate before their meals.

At one Mums house I was in the kitchen, when her poor-eating son, ( she had complained about this) went into a cupboard and got a huge handful of chocolate, while the pizzas were cooking.
No one else was there, so I asked if he was allowed to have it before his tea, and he said yes, he could have it whenever he liked.
And since the low cupboard was full of chocolate, I believed him.

Spendonsend · 13/07/2023 21:46

I'm not sure its lower standards as such. I dont really get what the issue is with a child colouring whilst the adults chat , compared to a child staring into space whilst the adults chat..Its just different.

WanderingWitches · 13/07/2023 21:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Over diagnosed by who??
It takes around 3 to 4 years to even get seen!
You really think doctors are just handing out diagnosis willy nilly?

GreenShadyMeadow · 13/07/2023 21:48

WanderingWitches · 13/07/2023 21:46

Over diagnosed by who??
It takes around 3 to 4 years to even get seen!
You really think doctors are just handing out diagnosis willy nilly?

Quite possibly, a mum I know recently posted that most of the children in her child’s class were SEN, and this is in a regular village school, there’s a reason they all seem to be seeking this diagnosis for their kids.

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