Boris Johnson has "forgotten his old phone code" so can't supply the messages

[cakeorwine]

Boris Johnson ‘has forgotten’ passcode for phone wanted by Covid inquiry | Covid inquiry | The Guardian

It's like getting blood out of a stone.
First he was late to supply the messages.
Then he forgets his passcode.

I am sure there are ways to get in to it.

Equally strongly disagree.

We are holding a public inquiry into a series events that led to the deaths of over 240k people, many of whom died with no medical treatment & where the state decided family could not be with them.

It will be for the inquiry to decide what is pertinent, not the Govt being investigated, fortunately, the courts also agree.

There were allegations, denied at the time, that Bojo said "let the bodies pile high ..." rather than have another lockdown, if there are messages that back this up, then i think we should all know, also, if Bojo was treating LD and Covid as a bit of joke and was arranging parties to breach LD rules, we should know that too.

Do we need to know that Boris wished one of his children Happy Birthday? no we do not and the judge in charge will ensure personal msg's stay personal, anyone leaking will be held in contempt and that could lead to jail.

He has handed it over, i believe? There was a chap on Newsnight discussing why it’s quite difficult to get into it at least if all the apple security updates have been made (and you would hope he would have managed that at least).

There was a government Wattsapp group set up to organise the pandemic response. It was official business.

It’s important to be clear that the Wattsapp messages aren’t being handed to the media so we can all have a laugh. They’re being handed to a government inquiry so that the head of the inquiry can sift through them and determine which are relevant. This happens all the time. If for example your company is sued, then a junior lawyer will be given access to every single email you have received or sent at work, and the lawyers will work out which are relevant to the case. I’ve been that junior lawyer many times. I’ve read thousands upon thousands of emails that the sender assumed would be ‘private’, including a great deal of confidential messages between politicians about whatever they were up to. It isn’t a big detail to allow lawyers and inquiries to see this stuff, that has always happened.

What IS a big deal is when someone destroys evidence that they know will make them look bad. That undermines our entire legal system of accountability.

If Johnson has decided that whatever is on that phone makes him look worse than illegally withholding evidence does - wow.

But I don't need to see his private conversations during a highly uncertain time to make that decision.

You won't see them though, the inquiry though. If MH hadn't leaked his own messages people would have still thought the science was pushing for people to not see partners, to eek out social distancing etc when in fact it was politicians who didn't want to backtrack and appear they'd made the wrong decision. I think that's a pretty important point to consider for any future pandemics really.

If we think there wasn't enough use of OFFICIAL channels to make and record decisions with formal meeting minutes and formal governance and the consent of Parliament, we already have enough evidence to say that without reading the messages.

(FWIW I do think that's the case!)

(But Boris would be an idiot if he revealed his WhatsApp messages so of course he's forgotten his password, I'd lose any remaining respect for him if he remembered it)

If they all used the Government internal systems we wouldn't need to see their Whatsapps.
They chose to do business off the books and then drag their feet about supplying the information.

Baroness Hallet isnt interested in what they picked up from Tescos for dinner - she wants to see discussions relevant to Covid policy making.

She is doing exactly whats the Government has charged her to do within the contraints of the Inquiry Act 2005.

He needs to be locked up. Idiot.

Many criminal investigations use evidence from private messages on phones.

If you have not twigged yet that nothing digital can be considered private, you are stuck in the previous century

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g absolutely brilliant!!!!

If you write something down, in an email, a WhatsApp message, then it's part of the written record.

And on a Government phone.

A Government phone that can be recalled and should be accessed at anytime.

Just like Team Chat messages etc.

He can’t remember how many kids he has got, so it’s quite possible.

I doubt the narcissist even remembers his children's birthdays.

This is a ridiculous take. If politicians don't want their personal phones being accessed, they need to not use them to conduct the business of government. There was no excuse for people not understanding the relevant rules about scrutiny and data in 2020. Your argument has absolutely nothing to recommend it.

While I agree Johnson is a lying toad, do people not realise that the “unlocking” that is done on every high street is not unlocking the phone in this sense?

And can we stop calling him Boris like he’s our mate?

I agree that this is an important point.

I just don't think we needed MH's WhatsApp messages to know that the science at that time was not pushing social distancing. There were many scientists pushing alternative solutions and approaches that weren't just "lockdown". This information and alternative perspectives was available to the government very early on in the pandemic.

I would much rather the inquiry be an impartial evaluation of the government's specific policies and the impacts that they had 1/2/3 years on (e.g. impacts to education, non-covid health issues etc). So that we can make recommendations on future pandemic responses.

I don't give a shit if Boris Johnson said "let the bodies pile high" in a fit of stress/anger. That's not my business. The policies he enacted are.

"Since the invention of meeting minutes people have been having quiet off-the-record conversations in the hallway before the meeting... WhatsApp is just that in digital form.

If you think this isn't the case I assume you're not a senior decision-maker."

This is not correct. Organisational culture does vary..

Boris Johnson = LYING TORY TWAT

It's blatantly obvious to anyone that he thinks he's above anything regarding the law

But the scientists advising the government were even saying this, Chris whitty for example. Its hugely relevant that they ignored this to save face and were happy to throw them under the bus. Where's the integrity? There's lots to learn from this.

They were conducting discussions regarding policy decisions via Whatsapp.
Thats why we need to see them.

The form of the message is irrelevant. The substance is what matters.

Too add, MHs WhatsApp messages provided a lot of insiight around policy decisions that hadn't been seen elsewhere, especially around care homes. Hugely hugely valuable.

"Since the invention of meeting minutes people have been having quiet off-the-record conversations in the hallway before the meeting... WhatsApp is just that in digital form

Emails
Team chats
WhatsApp

All digital evidence.

You want an off the record conversation. Have a conversation.

All communications regarding Government policy (including developing that policy) is considered property of the Crown.

It is doesnt matter what form it is. It doesn't belong to the individual.

Ministers and officials would have been advised this when they entered office.

It's ridiculous to suggest that the method of communicating makes the content personal.

We won't see the messages unless they are pertinent to the Inquiry.

@Middlelanehogger

I don't give a shit if Boris Johnson said "let the bodies pile high" in a fit of stress/anger. That's not my business. The policies he enacted are

Well, the context of the message would tell us if it was said in a fit of anger OR was part of the conversation in letting infected patients go back to care homes and hence on policy.

You might not give a shit, but i do, my partners Nan died as a result of his CH policy.

Aside, i would hope that any person who is PM does not take the time to to open Whatsapp and send their angry thought to another person... BJ was making policy, deciding which "expert" to listen too and hence the policies he enacted.

Don't really know why anyone would not want the inquiry to have all the information and then shift through what is relevant in order to make recommendations etc

Well, the context of the message would tell us if it was said in a fit of anger OR was part of the conversation in letting infected patients go back to care homes and hence on policy.

Yes, and this should surely be very obvious.

Covid had only got to do one good thing and it failed that test.