SIL driving me crazy!

[cantthink247]

First time posting on Mumsnet. I have absolutely reached my limit and need to rant for a bit. It’s going to be a long one so brace yourselves!

SIL is visiting (she lives abroad) and staying with us. This is the first time she has stayed with us. I had my first baby 3 months ago but he was very premature so technically he is currently like a newborn. We knew SIL had intentions of coming to the UK but didn’t know when as she didn’t confirm. Just kept saying “in June”. When I asked at the end of June, she said in three days time!!! She was staying elsewhere first then came to stay with us last week.

She is driving me crazyyy! I don’t know if it’s just my hormones making me feel like this or if it is indeed her behaviour. Things that have been bothering me:

• Short notice of arrival - DH coincidentally had some time off while she has been here which I was looking forward to spending together (DH, baby and I) as DH has not had a chunk of time off since baby came home from the hospital. Now this has been spent entertaining SIL.
• She is eating us out of house and home. She has the appetite of a teenage boy and literally eats everything in sight. I like to keep the snack cupboard stocked up so I have something available if anyone stops by or so that I can just grab something to eat while feeding baby etc and it has almost been depleted. I’m talking half a packet of biscuits, a doughnut and two chocolate bars in one sitting!!
• Helping herself to everything. I was always brought up that you behave a certain way in other people’s homes and I wouldn’t dream of opening up their cupboards and helping myself to their food! The only place I do this is my parents’ house, not even my brother’s. Today, I found she has eaten a whole packet of chocolate brazil nuts while I’ve been away for the weekend and they weren’t really kept in plain sight so she obviously was looking around. And I saw her eating (and finishing!) some snack fruit and nut packets my mum had left for when she comes to stay. I bought various soft drinks as we are expecting lots of visitors for baby later this week and she has drunk what’s in the fridge and put some more from the box in there to have later! I don’t care about the food or drink but I do find this behaviour very rude. She is behaving as though she is in her own house and not like she is a guest in someone else’s.
• I ordered the two of us a takeaway and she didn’t ask if she owed any money. I obviously wouldn’t have taken any money off her but she didn’t even ask how much her food was, it was almost like it was a given that I would pay for her.
• She keeps extending her stay. When DH told me she was coming, initially I was told it would be for a few days. Then she arrived and that few days turned into a week. And now we are looking at ten days. So I keep having to go food shopping to top up due to her aforementioned appetite. I personally think it’s very rude to stay somewhere without telling the host how long you intend to stay for. The length of stay isn’t the issue, it’s that it’s changed so many times and we just have to deal with it. Especially having a small baby at home, I would expect her to be more considerate to the fact we’re both tired and exhausted and in no position to host someone for this long.
• Had to spend my wedding anniversary at my parents. She wanted to visit my parents while she was here (very nice and good of her) but the only day that worked happened to be our wedding anniversary. We’ve only been married for two years so I still expect to celebrate so I was quite upset when DH said the visit would only work on this day. Probably not her fault but I still feel like she ruined it.
• Hasn’t offered to go shopping or take us out at all. If I was staying at someone’s house, I’d do a small food shop for essentials and/or take them out for dinner but she has done nothing at all or even offered despite not having to spend a single penny while being here. That being said she has been ordering Amazon parcels everyday and not even bothering to answer the door when they arrive.

I just feel like she has been very inconsiderate and rude as I wouldn’t dream of behaving this way if I were staying at someone’s house. I’m so stressed and I haven’t said anything to my husband yet, I’m waiting for her to leave first.

So is this actually unacceptable behaviour or AIBU??

I don't have children, but there's no chance I'd leave a tiny baby with someone who's afraid even to hold one!

She's clearly very cheeky and rude and so YANBU to be pissed off but YABU not to have said anything to your husband or indeed to her before now!
Your husband sounds like a bit of a dick as well.

Tell DH that SIL has stayed long enough and needs to leave tomorrow. And if you ever allow her to stay again, 1 night max and remove all snacks beforehand.

I would also give SIL a list of food items that she needs to replace today.

Yes, her behaviour is a bit rude however if you're carrying on as if it's fine then she'll be oblivious and nothing will change. I'm all for biting your tongue occasionally in the interest of harmony but why haven't you spoken up?
Your husband isn't faultless here either. Assuming you've expressed things to him it's down to him to sort. She's his guest really. BTW, I think it's weird that she wants to meet your mum. If eg the 2 had crossed over/hit it off at your house and mum had said you're welcome to call over you should have let them two get on with it. I'd have made dinner reservations on my anniversary and left her to it....but of course your OH would need to agree.
It's nearly over now. You've survived and will know now how to handle any future requests/visits. I'd also start discussing his next block of AL and how you'd like to spend it. Think you're owed some decent family or 1 on 1 time.

You’re all right. The more I think about it the more I realise it’s a husband problem and that I am probably taking my frustrations out on her. Yesterday I just sat and cried and cried after the ‘out of order’ comment from him around his sister’s failure to give us a departure date. I couldn’t believe he would be so inconsiderate towards me. Surely I shouldn’t have to spell it out to him?!

There are massive cultural differences between us that have really become apparent at times like this. I am now realising a lot of what I thought was “normal” behaviour around hosting/guest etiquette is actually just the norm in my culture and how I was brought up. I’ve had to explain to my husband a lot in the past that there are certain things we must do when we have guests. For instance (but I don’t think this particular point is culture-specific), cleaning the house before guests arrive. He never helps me because he thinks anyone visiting should see our “real” home and not the version we are presenting. Another bone of contention is the snack issue! My parents always had snacks and food that would be kept for guests so that if ever there is a short notice visit, you don’t have to scramble around looking for something to offer them (and you must always offer your guests something - that’s just how it is). So I do the same in my home. My husband would eat things just because they are there in the cupboard so I go and buy food we can offer guests when I know someone is coming to visit. He tells me off saying we should make do with what’s in the house and there is no need to buy anything especially. Another thing is I’ve told him is when we have anyone staying it’s courteous to offer them whatever you are eating eg he prepared himself a bowl of strawberries and ice cream when my parents were staying and sat with us eating it and didn’t offer to make any for anyone else. I was very embarrassed in front of my parents and had to explain to him afterwards that it was rude. Perhaps all these things are extreme, but that’s just what I know and how it is in my culture. My point is he knows this now so I know if I talk to him about his sister he will use my own ‘rules’ around guests/hosting against me which is why I am very reluctant.

I don’t know if this is a culture difference or if they’re all (husband’s family) just generally oblivious as I had to spell out to my husband why BIL and his family cannot come and visit us for a long weekend later this month. They want to come and meet the baby. BIL said they would stay in a hotel but essentially spend the entire day here (they have 2 children who are 7 and 5 I think) for three days in the summer holidays and my husband agreed! I told him they could come for one day but that I couldn’t host them for that period of time with a small baby. To me if the purpose of your visit is to meet a new baby, you stay for the shortest period of time out of courtesy to the new parents who are tired and exhausted and in no position to host guests. I explained this to him, he understood and told his brother who is now coming for one whole day instead of three. I don’t think my views are that strange??

Since having baby, my mum has come to stay a few times to help and she was a great help. She never stays very long because she doesn’t want to leave my dad alone for long periods. So one of those times my dad came too and they both stayed for a week. It wasn’t at all stressful. Yes, they are my parents but also my mum was helping me with baby so much and she would cook and clean for us too. So it’s definitely not the same as having SIL who is treating us like a hotel because I know my husband will retaliate with “your parents stayed for a long time” when I do eventually have this conversation with him.

SIL’s plan was to stay at various relatives’ houses while in the UK. She usually stays with their aunt but I know in that house there are no provisions made for guests. For instance, the aunt doesn’t make a room available for anyone by asking her daughters to share a room (this is the norm in my culture) so the guest ends up sleeping on the couch. If you’re hungry you get up and make food for yourself. If there’s no food you go out and buy some! Whereas in my culture we could never treat a guest this way whether they are family or a complete stranger. So I understand why she has preferred to stay here instead of there. BIL has told her there is no room for her in their small house as she thought she would stay there for a few days too. So when I hear these things I am more and more frustrated with my husband that he has let her treat our home and us like this.

So explain to him that as well as ways of being a good host there are also ways of being a good guest.

Your mum helps out, holds the baby as needed, does the washing up etc.

SIL didn’t help out at all, expected to be paid for and raided all the cupboards for snacks. So as a guest she was more of a burden and less enjoyable.

OP - you say you’re from a culture that is always hospitable to guests, so I get it.

But isn’t it the case in many cultures like this that guests also have a lot of obligations put on them about how to behave? ( bringing gifts/refusing offers of drinks/food etc at least a few times in order to appear polite )

you are also from that culture, so if she’s being rude to you, she is being rude! This isn’t some kind of culture clash.

She is appalling and your H is not in your side.

Yes, this is exactly my culture but not theirs. So when she turned up empty handed, I understood that perhaps it’s not a thing in their culture. She washed her plate on the first day and I told her to sit down because she is our guest but didn’t think she would take it too literally.

The expectation is the guest does something to repay your generosity. So if she can’t go shopping for instance or take us out to dinner, then do something around the house to help or offer to pay for the next lot of shopping. This is what we do when we stay with family. This is what my parents did when they stayed with us because it’s the ‘norm’.

Unfortunately my husband does not see it like this. I have just spoken to him because I really reached the end of my tether when I walked into the kitchen and found she had (as she also very proudly told me) polished off the danish pastries I bought yesterday that I hadn’t even eaten a single one of yet. I thought it so rude so brought my husband upstairs to speak to him. As I expected, he said I am a hypocrite and have double standards as I was so tolerant when my parents stayed but when it’s his family, they are a problem. My parents were not like this at all though. He said none of his family would stay with us again because of me and that I’m being so rude. I honestly thought he would be more understanding so I’m just sat here crying and crying.

Does SIL have a tapeworm?!

I would find your SIL's behaviour selfish and entitled, but I can also see the other side.

Your expectations and those of your Dh and SIL are incompatible. You want to be 'a good host' with expectations she'll be 'a good guest.'

DH and SIL don't think she's a guest to be cleaned up for, or treated with courtesy, they think she's part of the family unit while she stays and can raid the cupboards or slob about like you or DH could if you wanted.

He showed your SIL where food was kept, he told her to help herself to whatever she fancied. She took him at his word - maybe that's how things are within his family?

He also told you straight up that she isn't maternal and doesn't 'do' children, and yet you're unhappy she hasn't offered to hold/chang/fee/whatever the baby.

You told her not to wash up after herself, so she doesn't. You also didn't tell her some things were off limits - like the snacks your mum bought - and she did what her brother told her to and helped herself.

It's reasonable to give her a list and ask her to restock some of the things you're now out of, and be very clear abouut your expectations.

I think you are beating yourself up about being a perfect host when you have only just given birth to a premature baby. Regardless of custom/culture/etiquette/whatever this is one time when the needs of you and your baby absolutely trump anyone else’s needs/wishes/etc.

Stop treating her like a guest, hide your snacks etc in your bedroom and start putting yourself first. Leave shopping, food prep and cleaning to your DH. Let him pay for her if he wants. Focus on you and your baby and leave the pair of them to it.

She’s rude and your DH needs to step to support you as his wife and mother of his child.

I don’t think this is anything to do with “culture”, just different families having different ways.

I can’t say I’d care if someone ate my chocolate brazils. Mildly irritated, but it’s not crime of the century if the guest scoffs some snacks. As for doing nothing, ask her to muck in. “Oh, sil, I’m dead tired, can you hang out the washing?” etc.

As a pp said, your dh is happy for his dsis to be making herself at home, and not being in a stiffer “polite guest” situation. I think banning the bil visiting is mean, and, again, is not cultural. It’s a MN theme as old as time where someone doesn’t mind if their own mum/family stays, but the same rules don’t appply to in-laws!

Stop topping up the food. Feign ignorance and say you've been twice this week so didn't realise they food had ran out. Stop cleaning up after her too and let your husband see the mess. Start going out through the day, say you had plans previously. Has she not got a job to go home to?

I think you need to change your message for Dh to all family members who are lots of help to me at home with baby can visit. Yes that does rule all of yours out if they are like your sister and no it isn’t double standards.

stop shopping, send Dh with a list in the evening and tell him to take sil with him. Can you invite a friend to stay and tell sil you have them coming so she’ll have to go (explain to them why they are staying and they don’t actually have to stay! Just turn up as if they are in case sil isn’t leaving!)

It does remind me a bit of when SIL and family came to stay. They weren't half as bad in terms of length of visit, but there were some core differences in their expectations and mine. So first few times they came I made nice meals for them, but no word of thank you so efforts were scaled down for future visits. When we went to stay with them we had to make up our own mattress in the living room and the pillows were yellow and dirty, so when they come to stay now I make up the bed if I get time but don't worry if I don't.

Basically where I come from - Northern Ireland- it's important to be hospitable whereas less of a background of it for the,.

I'm not saying you're being unreasonable, because I do understand your frustration, but..

She usually stays with their aunt but I know in that house there are no provisions made for guests. For instance, the aunt doesn’t make a room available for anyone by asking her daughters to share a room (this is the norm in my culture) so the guest ends up sleeping on the couch. If you’re hungry you get up and make food for yourself. If there’s no food you go out and buy some! Whereas in my culture we could never treat a guest this way whether they are family or a complete stranger. So I understand why she has preferred to stay here instead of there. BIL has told her there is no room for her in their small house as she thought she would stay there for a few days too. So when I hear these things I am more and more frustrated with my husband that he has let her treat our home and us like this.

This explains everything! Why are you so bothered about projecting you own culture on her when she isn't from your culture.. there's never been a better example of 'if you can't beat them.. join them'.

Would you rather do what everyone else in their family does and do the bare minimum in the hope that they'll sod off pretty quick, or do what you're doing and hating it because they won't leave?

Why not try 'their culture' for a bit.. you never know, you might like it!

I didn’t ban BIL from visiting. I just said I didn’t think it was a good idea for them, his family including young children, to come and stay for a long weekend. They would have been going to the hotel to sleep but coming back to spend the whole day and it would have been up to us to entertain them which would be too much for me. His kids are hard work, my husband is a very hands off uncle and I have played with and entertained them when they have visited before, but that was before I had my own baby. I was just pointing out to my husband that if the primary aim of the visit is to meet the baby then they don’t need three days to do this and I would be very stressed in that situation.

I think I'm afraid to say that you have a really massive husband issue.

You've just had a baby, you're exhausted and you're housing a locust who hasn't even got the common courtesy not to open an untouched box of chocolates and is lazy and tight to boot.

He clearly doesn't care a jot about this so long as the sister who he doesn't bother with for years is happy. Let that sink in. He hasn't seen her for years, but you, the woman who has just grown him a whole child and he is supposed to love still comes second to her. Your wants, needs and upset mean literally nothing to him. In fact he is berating you for your perfectly valid feelings.

I agree with the previous poster, pack some things and go for a break for a week with your Mum and Dad who actually love you, rather than stay with this man who holds you in such low regard at a time when he should be doing his utmost to support you.

Men often show their true colours during and after pregnancy so I hope this is just a blip rather than your husband's true personality.

Haven't read whole thread yet so sorry if you already replied.

Why did you need to take her to your parents? Couldn't she have gotten a train?

She is very rude. She should have done a small shop or offered money and went shopping with you for her snacks. She obviously has money if she is ordering things from Amazon.

Her not getting up and answering the door to the delivery driver would drive me nuts. They literally tell you the time that the driver is coming, she should have some awareness not disturb you while you take care of a tiny baby.

Your husband needs to have a come to Jesus talk with her, or she needs to go.

I got as far as "chocolate Brazil nuts", and couldn't read on without a pause. Nobody would eat my chocolate Brazil nuts and get away with it.

Bloody hell. 😳How does someone get to the age of 40 and have no clue how to behave in someone else's house or understand that if you eat everything somebody has to have the inconvenience and cost of replacing it all?

"Unfortunately my husband does not see it like this. I have just spoken to him because I really reached the end of my tether when I walked into the kitchen and found she had (as she also very proudly told me) polished off the danish pastries I bought yesterday that I hadn’t even eaten a single one of yet."

This amazes me. Even when my children were small they knew not to do this.

People keep mentioning cultural differences, in what culture is this acceptable? I think this is just your husband's family.

She sounds fucking annoying... but...

I think you're expecting her to guess the correct behaviour then getting annoyed when she gets it wrong.

She's been told by her brother where everything is and to help herself, shes almost certainly aware you're knackered/busy with the baby, so she is doing as she was told.

She washed up her own dish, you told her not to.... so she's doing as she was told.

If you have a 'guessing' set up, based on both parties knowing the expected boundaries, then fine - but here you have guessing... without knowing the rules of the game, so she will fuck up.

Either - accept that, OR... speak to her! If she is familiar enough to help herself, then she can suck up being told 'can you buy dinner' or 'it'd be great if you could do a shop' or 'your turn for the dishes tonight'...