More Just Stop Oil hell? When will it stop?

[newnamethanks]

Apparent JSO protestor throws confetti at George Osborne's wedding. The danger! The terror! Front page news for the D Mail. Let's stamp this dangerous practice out before it becomes a habit.

Do you know though, my memory is that I felt like people were finally getting it and making changes. I felt a bit of hope. Then the pandemic came and whilst it was so shit in so many ways, I did still hope that people would maintain the closer connection with nature, flying less, WFH. I guess may be to an extent that’s happened although so many people I know are flying more ‘to make up for losing out’. It feels like we lost momentum.

I wonder if, like cigarette packets, plane tickets had a picture of a family carrying a child from their flooded home, or a picture of forests burning with black and white writing saying ‘Will contribute to our collective demise’ on whether we’d think twice? Or carbon counts and what it compares to; ‘this flight will emit the same amount of carbon as an average family in Pakistan use in a year’ as a made up, but probably not too far off, figure.

No, it was Kensington I think.

But we can’t do whataboutery here - underinvestment in the NHS isn’t a reason to hold up ambulance transport, that’s a contrived notion. And you made the point about no sirens… I have already said there are reasons why emergency vehicles at times can’t use lights and sirens. If they have a solid policy then they should know this too. As I say, I’m not against the principle, but the first person that holds up an emergency vehicle is a wanker, clearly.

The you tube video shows them being told there is an ambulance (no sirens) and they very quickly go to check.

From my bored and ill bit of google research, they do let any emergency services through. The way it’s reported, unless you read further, makes it sound like they have caused a delay but then the evidence doesn’t seem to back that up.

Kensington: https://news.sky.com/story/amp/emergency-vehicles-blocked-by-just-stop-oil-protest-in-west-london-rush-hour-12717957

‘Just Stop Oil later tweeted a video showing protesters moving out of the way of a fire engine with the caption: "Just Stop Oil supporters pause roadblock to let fire engine through."
A London Fire Brigade spokesperson said: "An appliance from Kensington Fire Station was temporarily stopped by a road block and arrived within 14 minutes of being called."’

It’s upsetting to think of emergency services being delayed and the media play to this and make it sound worse than it is. When you dig deeper it’s seems like it’s not how the headlines suggest.

The FOI request will clear it up once and for all I guess.

let the grownups do all the talking, there's a love.

The just stop oil stunts make me really angry. I strongly support taking urgent steps to address climate change and I supported this without the influence of JSO’s spoilt dramatics. The way they behave makes me want to distance myself radically for their cause but of course I support concerns about the environment.

You have reiterated exactly what I have been saying. Public opinion needs to change, people need to be educated enough to make climate change a big enough issue it becomes a key electoral point. The thing we disagree on is that disruptive protest helps the cause.

I think you may have missunderstood my point about public opinion of XR and public opinion on climate change, I'll try and be clearer.

If 78% of people are against the tactics of XR it does not mean that only 22% of people are concerned about climate change.

Public support for climate change measures is likely much higher.

Just because these groups are passionate and protesting etc doesn't mean they are driving the change, which is a good thing given the majority of people don't like them!

And of course it’s wrong to use a private wedding as a platform to protest. I say this while strongly disliking George Osborne. Now JSO have caused me to sympathise with him which is also extremely irritating.

I also have zero tolerance for the false argument that JSO’s antics are similar to women seeking the right to vote. Those women had no access to the democratic system. JSO all have the right to vote, as does the general public. There is no comparison to be made with the suffragettes. I do think JSO are causing real harm by giving those on the centre right an easy excuse to dismiss environmental concerns as something belonging to the extreme fringe.

You've seen the video. George and Mrs George2 were not upset or concerned by this, on the contrary, they were both smiling and amused by it. Perhaps, not being from JSO, she'd read the email and had a private grievance. Or perhaps she was just throwing some good luck confetti. Like thousands of unremarkable others.

slow hand clap

What a selfish and childish response.

Anyone who reads and believes the Daily Mail can be dismissed. It has a nasty, misogynistic, right-wing agenda and only bigots and fools swallow their bile.

I think it's pretty niave to think that governments aren't heavily influenced by oil money, even in countries with elected leaders.

Really interesting that you think this, I wonder what actions you suggest taking given the urgency of the situation and the fact our Govt is ignoring experts warning we must have no new oil and gas?

That's why we need systemic change from Govt / global level.

For example:

Significant renewable energy investment and no new fossil fuel projects

No new clothes made from virgin synthetics, subsidies for sustainable practices and materials

Insulation schemes nationwide

Mandatory reduction or removal of single use plastic packaging, Styrofoam etc

Big aviation industry taxes and fewer available flights / no airport expansions

Investment in green public transport methods

Prison sentences for water company bosses pumping sewage into rivers

Subsidies on plant food / taxes on UPFs especially those with a high environmental impact eg meat / dairy ingredients to pay for them

Most of the stuff about the world being on fire and flooding comes from ignorance of the normal way of things.

Please stop using Facebook like it was an encyclopedia.

And if we did what JSO want and shut down everything then economies would collapse and billions would die so don't pretend it's about lives.

Try it out yourself. Turn off your electric and gas at the mains and put away your phone and car. Don't eat any imported food or use anything made of plastic.

Also most of the climate change comes from companies. Not individuals.

@LastTrainEast i don’t think anyone is suggesting to ‘shut down everything’. The demand is to not drill for any further oil or gas, and to look for renewable energy replacements.
also I am not on Facebook but I’m able to see the extent of the wildfires in California, the flooding in Pakistan, the undeniable fact that the world had its hottest average day ever recorded this June.

LastTrainEast

The science is unequivocal. I get my facts from reliable sources. The only people that don’t agree that climate change change is happening, that we are causing it, that we are heading for irreversible tipping points and catastrophic results, are those that haven’t looked into it.

GwinCoch

Individuals consume the products that companies produce so saying it’s not individuals causing it doesn’t stack up. If we all consume less, we will emit less carbon. Companies respond to consumer pressure. Individuals have more power than we think.

This is what JSO want;

‘In eight years we need to end our reliance on fossil fuels completely. The transition will require massive investment in clean technology, renewables and energy storage but it cannot be done at current levels of energy consumption. We need to cut energy demand by insulating Britain and rethinking how we travel including providing free public transport everywhere. This starts by switching government subsidies from dirty fossil fuels towards clean energy, transport and insulation. Killer fact: In recent years government subsidies for the production and consumption of fossil fuels amounted to £12 billion a year, that’s equivalent to £230 million every week.’

Seems sensible to me

WarmWinterSun · Yesterday 20:48

The just stop oil stunts make me really angry. I strongly support taking urgent steps to address climate change and I supported this without the influence of JSO’s spoilt dramatics. The way they behave makes me want to distance myself radically for their cause but of course I support concerns about the environment.

babbscrabbs · Yesterday 23:01
Really interesting that you think this, I wonder what actions you suggest taking given the urgency of the situation and the fact our Govt is ignoring experts warning we must have no new oil and gas?

Babbs, this is the question I keep asking when people say that disruptive direct action/civil disobedience isn’t helpful. We’ve had over 30 years of very careful, science led campaigning, peaceful protests and even children striking! The Government’s own advisors say they are not doing enough. We are going to (already are) coming to significant harm and they are not acting in our best interests. You are right;

The question is, if not this, then what can people do?

Individuals have power, but it's very hard to resist when the whole system is geared towards over - consumption. For instance, I am forced to buy a car due to lack of investment in public transport. Yes, I could go live in a but in a forest, but very few people are going to do that, so big sacrifices on my part aren't going to make much impact. If we made systems that make it easier to reduce consumption (more public transport, reducing advertising for rubbish we don't need) then more people would make those changes, which wotif mean less consumption overall.

LameBorzoi

Oh, I totally agree that it’s VERY hard to resist. I get so tempted to fly when I see what others are doing it read travel write ups. I have tried and failed to give up dairy.

Marketing is very clever and based on some very clever science. I think you are right that the ‘system’ needs to change. That’s why we need legislation.

Regarding individual change, I think we need to move away from ideas about it’s ‘all or nothing’ and that unless you live in mud hut, wear a hair shirt and eat nothing but worms and berries, you can’t talk about the change needed. It’s about direction of travel.

Small, manageable steps: for example: If you don’t feel you can give up meat, chose to have a meat free day, or save it for certain days of the week. Whatever feels manageable. If you don’t feel you can give up flying altogether then cut down. Do you need that weekend trip to Prague or could you go to Edinburgh instead?

If everyone reduced their carbon footprint by a small amount, that adds up to a larger amount. And talking about what you are doing and why, generates debate and conversation.

The most important bit is getting involved politically: write to MPs, sign petitions- be counted. Lots of people emailing their MP about relevant issues adds up to a bigger impact than everyone assuming they can’t make an impact.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/stories/climate-action/amp-index.html

I like this guide to individual action.